BKDennis Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Sorry if it's the wrong thread. btw AC->jc(whiff)->jb works on every character?
A.X.I.S. Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) That is an okay question. It doesn't work on every character but it does work on: Jin, Ragna, Bang, Haku-men, Litchi, Tager, Rachel, and Arakune. JBBS says it works on Hazama but its hard as landing it on Jin. To make it land on Jin you have to do it perfectly. Edit: The only thing that really matters to me is the 4th P2. that 40% or 68%. When I get a chance to mess with CS2 I will test more things out. Edited April 6, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
Manta Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Frame data for CS2 states that magnetism depletes at half the rate if tager is being comboed. Discuss.
Astaroth136 Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Frame data for CS2 states that magnetism depletes at half the rate if tager is being comboed. Discuss. Great against Litchi and Makoto!!! Does it help the matchup though? Not that much. But, it makes for a very small change that could sometimes be a round changer.
FlyingVe Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 It's a buff to be sure, but now that Mag depletes at a variable rate, it makes me want some kind of Mag gauge more than ever. It's harder to 'feel' how long you Mag lasts now that the depletion rate is variable. I'm sure we've all had combo's go south because Mag ran out mid-combo.
RoKn Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 A question out of pure curiosity. (CS, and numbers are rounded by 10-50 damage just to make it easier to work with) MTW + Break = 4.3K 2C = 1K 5C = 1K 2C 5C/2C = 350 However... 2C MTW + Break = 6K 4.3K + 1K = 5.3K. What is the SCIENCE behind MTW + Break getting an extra 700 damage? Does 2C magically reverse prorate just for MTW + Break for some odd reason?
Osuna Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 While I don't know the actual answer, the solution may very well be that 2C has a much higher p1 than MTW.
Manta Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 MTW has a bad opening P1 of 80% whereas 2C has the best proration you're going to get from an opening move (100%/92%). MTW and Terra Break ignore Tager's 40% Character rate as well, so there's little reason to put them at the start of a combo if you have the choice. 2C ACx2 MTW TB should give you the best damage.
C0R Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 Atomic Collider also ignores Tager's Character proration, meaning the 2c > AC > ACwhiff > MTG(tb) combo is realistically unprorated.
Manta Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 Atomic Collider also ignores Tager's Character proration, meaning the 2c > AC > ACwhiff > MTG(tb) combo is realistically unprorated. Hence why I suggested it. You still get the 92% from 2C and the 80% from AC before MTW comes into play though
A.X.I.S. Posted April 11, 2011 Author Posted April 11, 2011 I notice in Akira's vids you can do: Spark>colliderx2>6B>2C>colliderx2>6B>2C>collider which makes them air tech! perhaps we can have a little fun with this. Oh another combo ending option! Magnetized 6C>2D>5B>4D. Maybe off a corner 6C hit we can do 6C>2D>2B>2C>collider>ender. 2D has really great p2 so I see some potential in this.
Brice Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 you can already do this in cs1 if i recall correctly: 4D CH > 5C > 6A > AC > AC Whiff > 6B > 2C > AC > (they air tech during the collider bounce) > AC again catches them if they tech at the first possible moment... kind of gimmicky , but gets people every once in a while
Astaroth136 Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 I notice in Akira's vids you can do: Spark>colliderx2>6B>2C>colliderx2>6B>2C>collider which makes them air tech! perhaps we can have a little fun with this. Oh another combo ending option! Magnetized 6C>2D>5B>4D. Maybe off a corner 6C hit we can do 6C>2D>2B>2C>collider>ender. 2D has really great p2 so I see some potential in this. How does it force air tech? Can't they simply choose to hold 2 and tech right above the ground? (I forget what that tech is called)
A.X.I.S. Posted April 12, 2011 Author Posted April 12, 2011 They don't have to tech at all but it gives us a free way in which is why its so good. I didn't really use it in CS1 but I do recall spark>5C/2C>colliderx2>6B>2C>colliderx2>6B to make them tech. problem with this was we didn't get to do 6B>2C 2 times in that combo regardless.
FlyingVe Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 You could also AC(wiff) and then time a jB such that it will safe jump most reversals and catch both types of tech-roll. I learned that one from Chance-Wizard.
Manta Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 The next nugget from the frame data is that you can go into hammer at the last active frame of sledge, nothing new there, except that the projectile guard exists from the last active frame of sledge from the very first frame of startup on hammer, so it is possible to have a totally projectile invulnerable sledge/hammer until recovery.
FlyingVe Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 We also get forward movement on the hammer. I've seen this put to good use in the zoner matchups. Once in a while you can get them to misjudge their spacing. Like I've said may times, Tager has options in places he didn't used to (he still sucks though).
Manta Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Yeah, And landing a Hammer CH gives you good CS1 damage and plenty of time to react. I often just do Hammer (CH), walk, 6C > AC... Is there anything better than that I could be doing?
Mute Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 Alright tager dudes. I hope I'm allowed to post here asking this.. but I have a quick question for you guys. Tager seems to be my worst match-up, I use A-11 and Mu-12. Aren't I supposed to be winning against tager if I'm using these 2 characters? lol. I just can't seem to get around him without getting grabbed and chunked 50 feet in the air for massive damage. I'm not really a beginner but I'm not pro either, I just can't beat you
Darlos9D Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?88-Matchups http://www.dustloop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?145-Matchups All the info you need, I'm sure of it.
Mute Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?88-Matchups http://www.dustloop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?145-Matchups All the info you need, I'm sure of it. Didn't even know this existed, thanks.
A.X.I.S. Posted April 16, 2011 Author Posted April 16, 2011 BIG IMPORTANT STUFF HERE! With the coming of CS2 I am letting you guys know that I am gonna rebuild the Tager guide from scratch and put in some info from other threads into it. Bjholmes did a great job but I don't think I have a need to copy paste his guide and change things. I also want you guys to help me make a primer on how to play the character. I would do it myself but I would just say block a lot of stuff and do combo's which isn't enough for it. (kinda serious.) With the next bit of business. All old threads but the gimmick/gadget RC thread will be put into the archives and be replaced with new match up threads. I will go through the JBBS and pull up the basic match up info if it isn't too obvious and post them there. If you think a clever name is required for a match up thread, let me know. I will make all the match up threads for CS2 so I can update the thread. I really want to hear you guys input on this! yes even you lurkers who are afraid to post for whatever reason. Requests? Questions? Ask away!
Manta Posted April 17, 2011 Posted April 17, 2011 How do you want any guides and parts sent to you? Do you just want them here or PMed or what? And whilst we're on the subject, I've had a few ideas on a few subject (sub)headings for the guide: Basic gameplay and Tager-specific mechanics that are worth repeating here. (e.g. Jump startup is throw invulnerable, command throws cannot be special cancelled into, Tager's quite frankly arse combo rate and exceptions) Optimal ways to end a combo (It isn't always gadget finger or the best damage). Know your opponent (There's not a lot in the way of safe mixups for Tager, so this deserves a mention) Getting yourself out of rushdown/oki (Basically how to fight against Ragna/Makoto). How momentum changes if you have sparkbolt charged. The armour on 6A and 214D and the hitstop it creates. Sledge is not the answer. I'll edit more in if I think of them
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