FlyingVe Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Ah, that could also be an interesting direction. Though, I really don't think the throws themselves are why Tager is bad. The point about having 5 very similar moves is an interesting one though. Edited June 27, 2011 by FlyingVe
Manta Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Ah, that could also be an interesting direction. Though, I really don't think the throws themselves are why Tager is bad. The point about having 5 very similar moves is an interesting one though. They're most of the reason people don't respect his close range game as much as they ought to.
FlyingVe Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 The reason people don't respect his close range game is because he has no way to set up the throws or any other mixup. Or at least, very poor ways to do so. This is mostly because of his garbage normals and a total inability to re-establish pressure.
Darlos9D Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Well, command throws ARE untechable if it's not a pink throw. So that's something at least. Still, that leaves us with 3 ground-to-ground command grabs. Which I agree is terribly redundant.
Manta Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 The reason people don't respect his close range game is because he has no way to set up the throws or any other mixup. Or at least, very poor ways to do so. This is mostly because of his garbage normals and a total inability to re-establish pressure. But that's entirely related. If you know that Tager's big damage only comes from being right in front of him on the ground (Which you do), then you only have one goal when fighting him which is not to be right there. Everyone else's good setups involve placing their opponent where they want them and still have something unpleasant for them if they try to be somewhere else. Or at the very least, if they do escape, they aren't given a free counterhit oppertunity.
FlyingVe Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Yes, but the throws, while redundant (agreed there) aren't the root of the problem, it's his normals.
Osmond Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 I think both need work...but while his grapples are almost too strong, his normals are kinda pathetically slow in a game full of lighting bruisers. You'd thing they'd learn from what happened to CS1 Noel that it doesn't matter how good their specials are if they don't have decent normals they aren't going to be much use as a character. Hey but if we really want to get creative why do we just have them take off those 100 pound plates of metal he has strapped to his legs? I'm sure that'd help his mobility, I mean what are they there for? I hope it isn't to protect his legs because they sure aren't doing much of that.
Manta Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 I think both need work...but while his grapples are almost too strong, his normals are kinda pathetically slow in a game full of lighting bruisers. You'd thing they'd learn from what happened to CS1 Noel that it doesn't matter how good their specials are if they don't have decent normals they aren't going to be much use as a character. Hey but if we really want to get creative why do we just have them take off those 100 pound plates of metal he has strapped to his legs? I'm sure that'd help his mobility, I mean what are they there for? I hope it isn't to protect his legs because they sure aren't doing much of that. Mmm, Salty.
Astaroth136 Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Placed 2nd at MWC here in Tennessee using Tager. I played like crap, so none of you need to see the videos...
Astaroth136 Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Still, congrats Astaroth. Thanks. I had played Marvel for three days straight, two of which were all-day tournaments (placed 4th out of 55 people in MvC3 though). I was just exhausted, and to be honest, wasn't really up for Blazblue at the time. Just to paint a picture for you, 3C was coming out instead of collider, I missed easy 720 punishes, my instant blocking was terrible, and when trying to tech, I would mash too hard and get counterhit. On top of that, I wasn't looking forward to fighting Eshi's legit Tsubaki in grand finals. I despise that matchup. Edited June 27, 2011 by Astaroth136
A.X.I.S. Posted June 27, 2011 Author Posted June 27, 2011 Astaroth do I have to beat more since into you? Just be smart, control your space, don't let someone run up and press buttons, and be really active and let them know you're not gonna block if you don't want to. Oh Late congrats Astaroth, I am very proud of you.
Osmond Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Tsabaaki, isn't that bad you just gotta watch out for D Ape-Worm and Benedictus Rex
Arcknight Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Axis: I came all the way over here just to tell you that there's a new Plinkett Review and it's pretty damn funny. It's only a single 20 minute video but I think you should check it out. Just so you can have a laugh.
Manta Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Hey guys, notice this link on the front page? http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager_test.html It's the frame data, but click on the move names for hitbox displays.
Arcknight Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Hey guys, notice this link on the front page? http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager_test.html It's the frame data, but click on the move names for hitbox displays. That's very cool. I don't think it's universally updated though. Haku still has nothing for his. :/
Manta Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Give them a chance, some poor bugger has to manually go through it all and put the images up. I also think that they've put the wrong images in for 360B. Tager doesn't reach his arm as far out as 360A's animation. Seriously, they're different.
Arcknight Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Ya I understand that it would be a pain to do it all (especially if it were/is only a singular entity).
Manta Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Still, it does show a few useful things, like 5C not having the vertical hitbox it looks like it has. 6B having a deceptively large hitbox and j.2C's is bizarrely small. Edited June 28, 2011 by Manta
Waks Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Give them a chance, some poor bugger has to manually go through it all and put the images up. I also think that they've put the wrong images in for 360B. Tager doesn't reach his arm as far out as 360A's animation. Seriously, they're different. Well, if you click on 360B's frame data, it brings you to 360A's link. Probably just an error on their end.
Waks Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) err.. sorry, double post. Edited June 28, 2011 by Waks
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I love this hitbox project. I think this will hit us greatly. I think. I really think. Uh....Have a cool picture! http://mastermorisu.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d3k8976
A.X.I.S. Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 Its weird, in the hitbox data both 360s looked like they had the same range...if you guys want I'll post the zip so in case there was a mistake somewhere.
Osmond Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 They was a little mishap here, Tager reaches out further with his 360A the animation is different. But from what I see having them side by side they look like the exact same frames.
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