My 2D/HD Painted Fighter (WARNING IMG HEAVY)

[Ashenwraith]

Hi, I'm an Artist/Programmer who's been developing a fighter for years now. I have a few original characters I'm working on, but most of the others you will probably recognize.

***DISCLAIMER--NONE of this work is finished and most of it is unpolished. Most of the character sprites shown were complete or near complete and were fully playable in-game--the art was just not detailed to a higher level.

Normally, this would be kept under wraps but I I've been inspired by the progress of Skullgirls.

What the hell, right? It's been a lot of years--why not get some community feedback?

So it all started when I was young. Seeing all those classic NES and SNES covers--"Wouldn't it be great if the game actually looked something like that?"

My first painted character was completed before HD Remix was revealed. Here are a few of his sprites (I trust you remember this guy).

Around the time HDR's first video was finally released and it looked like a disaster (2007?) I was improving my art and enjoying what I thought were dream battles.

But now everything was about HD this/HD that and I really didn't think what I had was good enough anymore. So I decided I need to go HD. How HD is HD? Well vram was the enemy for the longest time so I went 720p thinking that's what HD R was as well.

I also figure that Capcom might be interested in investing in my demo since it would be like an improved HD SF3, but with the classic characters. Sooo... While HDR got delayed for having shitty sprites, I began my first HD painted sprite to which I referred to as 720p Remy.

Here are some crappy screen caps from an old video that have artifacts on them:

And here is the actual sprite from the last version of the sprite set. It's actually pretty close to how the final art would have looked in game.

I also have a Ryu and a Chun Li I was working on from this era, but like the previous, this is only a quick peek.

Somewhere around this time Capcom announced SF4--GET HYPE--then revealed that it looked like claymation crap 3D with The Sim's characters in the background. I felt Capcom had truly abandoned 2D at this time (and Ono confirmed this somewhere around here).

Sooo... I terminated my SF3(ish) project and went back to working on custom characters. Then another company announced a fighting game. A game with 2D characters... something called Blazblue--I trust you've heard of this?

They (Daisuke?) talked crap about SF4 and KOF 12 for relying too much on 3D. I thought wow, hey I remember this company... I've done work for them that they don't know about and didn't pay me for (haha ).

So why not give fans what they wanted?

Why not give them a new GG--a GG in HD painted sprites--real 1080p+ HD--bigger than HD Remix sprites?!

I worked on quite a few characters including Leopaldon. These character didn't get polished very much. Here you can see some polish I did finish on I-No which would have given you some idea how her face/hair would have been detailed in the finished sprite.

Before BB came out I actually talked to some Aksys peeps who seemed very enthusiastic at first about the idea of checking this out as something publish-worthy, but that dramatically reversed all of sudden. I'm guessing I got them in major trouble over this.

The Sega/Sammy GG rights crap?

Arc wanting to focus on BB and this being a threat?

Just plain old biz phobia by management?

Who knows--who cares--it's history now.

So I shelved that and went back to working on other stuff...

Then something happened.

*Tear!

*Shred!

*Riiiiiiiiip!

Someone ripped the BB sprites! Hmmm yes, should I try again? It's crazy--why work on other people's IP for no reason? Well it's great for engine tests that's for sure. During this time the graphics for the engine had advanced quite a bit so I really wanted to do something to max it out.

And so this would be the HD game of HD games... "TRUE SOVIET HD!!!"

NOTE: They are downscaled by the forum.

http://i52.tinypic.com/344qkud.png

http://i53.tinypic.com/35mkri0.png

http://i51.tinypic.com/rsz9xe.png

http://i54.tinypic.com/xoidtt.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/2hhm78y.png

http://i55.tinypic.com/2h7hycx.png

http://i54.tinypic.com/15iasg1.png

http://i53.tinypic.com/2iwaz4m.png

Now remember these are roughs to get all the frames quickly in the game. They may be blurry and have depixelated/jagged areas because my unorthodox style involves speed painting right onto the actual upscaled sprite.

It seems all grand as a bunch of high res pics, but you must really wonder if I'm full of crap and whether this animates at all or fits into a game. Well, yes it's real and yes it does fit into the game. I only have a 256 mb of vram on my card (about half of what the 360/PS3 have) and I can play it smoothly. In comparison, I tested the BBCS leak and it runs like crap on my system.

Now here I tried to record a video to demonstrate the engine. The problem is I don't have the hardware (and perhaps the wrong software) to record a giant piece of my screen AND run the game. There is also bad compression, low fps, and weird artifacts. Video is such a pain in the ass in HD.

NOTE--THIS IS NOT A COMBO VIDEO: I tried to do the least complex stuff possible to keep the recording framerate as smooth as possible.

While I was playing there was no detectable slow down, but when I watched the video it was another story.

I tried to upload it to youtube and I guess it prefers certain formats/uncompressed so you're going to have to get it here--plus the video size is unorthodox since it's a section of a window:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E0O8TE18

Anyways, there's lots of stuff I'm not showing like more polished versions of the characters, new and improved animation, etc, etc. This is just a sneak peek.

In closing I'd just like to say that you guys as a community are an inspiration. It's surprising to watch what you guys come up with and do. So go ahead and give me some feedback--especially if you work in the industry or got any connections.

Want BB to play more like GG?

Want to play an HD (and most importantly 2D) GG vs BB?

Want a chance to actually talk to someone--a single person--who can do all the art/design for the game--none of this China workshop shit.

Know someone at Arc Sys? :PPPPP

I mean really all this talk about 2D being so hard is such bull. If Arc got behind me and gave me a tiny fraction of what they spent on Obvious Bomb Overture or all their other weird games you could be playing a polished version of this in 2-3 years.

I mean come on--it's not even good enough for PSN/XBL--STEAM?

But anyways, I'm just a guy in So Cal who's going to keep doing what he's doing. Like I said, I got some original chars on the side that would fit into the a bb/gg game (though they are not on the weird/loli side).

Edited March 11, 2011 by Ashenwraith

[Kain]

So basically, you want to make a GG vs. BB?

Sounds good, but I can't really judge, as I can't play your demo in Windows Media Player.

[Ashenwraith]

So basically, you want to make a GG vs. BB?

Sounds good, but I can't really judge, as I can't play your demo in Windows Media Player.

Yeah, sorry. The demo really is shit--just proof I'm working on a game, not just a few sprites. I need to get better hardware/software for capture--or better yet borrow an HD camera.

It will play in VLC (free download).

====================

Honestly I'm really open to making ANY game.

I'd prefer to create a BB or a BB with some GG guest stars (maybe working up to a full GG vs BB), but I'm also working on original chars.

Obviously I need to get the rights from ARC SYS if it's going to be anything other than vaporware.

Unless the GG/BB community gets behind the idea, then it's pretty much dead.

I hear all these complaints on this site of "Bla, bla, bla, I wish there was a 2D HD GG" and "Bla, bla, bla, I hope there is a new BB."

But then you look at this thread and it's mostly crickets.

Not even a "it sucks" :p

If someone came to me and said, "Hey here's the art for a 1080p+ version of one of your favorite game and I'll consider putting anything you want in it." I'd at least be curious.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Ashenwraith

[Kain]

Hmm, okay.

I take a lot of interest in projects like this, because someday I'd like to make my own fighting game (not crossover/Mugen-esque stuff, but an original fighting game).

The demo itself? I guess I shouldn't have expected much from it when you were saying it was shit. What I do have to say:

-Did you actually design the background yourself? My guess is it was ripped from somewhere else.

-I have a feeling the mini-sprite on top is meant to emulate GG's thing, where a mini-sprite imitates what the character is doing right now. Right now it just feels like unnecessary clutter on a screen with no HUD to speak of.

-Jin's attacks feel clunky. Compared to BB, this Jin's animations are not smooth at all. 5B is missing a lot of necessary frames. Especially noticable when you pause at 0:28, where he's missing a leg.

-The 'shadow' is really just a mirror image of the char's foot.

I'm guessing a lot of people aren't really taking much interest in this because you're a bit of a unknown (I didn't even know you existed until this thread was made) around here. Oh wells.

[arctus32]

yeah sorry I ignored you ,but after seeing the demo it irked me not to comment ^^;

Your current work looked too choppy, and I'm expecting your planning to improve that the more you work on it.

also the HD rendition of the BB sprites doesn't look promising, so you still got a long way.

not being mean or anything just a general input to what I see, and as always practice makes perfect, or close to it >.>

[Ashenwraith]

The character is not missing frames--including 5b.

I can't record the video at full fps because I'm running the game and capturing video at the same time. It's too resource intensive. The video is also only a section of the screen instead of the whole window.

Stage is from svc. I could have put anything in the bg really.

These are the initial mocks accurate to the original sprites.

I have the full characters with all the frames finished at this level of quality.

The shadow doesn't align properly anyways because the sprites has not been cleaned and properly aligned 100% yet. It's turned off to free up resources for smoother video capture.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Ashenwraith

[SolxBaiken]

Ok I'll bite...

Your work is good and all but why're you posting this (here)?

Are you serious about making your own GG vs BB game? (without more to show for it there's even less of a chance to get it officially endorsed) Or are you looking for recuitment (to an original project)?

This feels like it belong in the Zepp Musuem.

[Ashenwraith]

Ok I'll bite...

Your work is good and all but why're you posting this (here)?

Are you serious about making your own GG vs BB game? (without more to show for it there's even less of a chance to get it officially endorsed) Or are you looking for recuitment (to an original project)?

This feels like it belong in the Zepp Musuem.

Uhhh I posted more stuff than most games in this section.... I'm not really following you.

Skullgirls thread has plenty of unfinished sketches in it and the game is over 10 years old.

[SolxBaiken]

Sorry if it came off the wrong way, I'm honestly confused, what are your intentions?

Are you showing us you're actually working on this GG vs BB or are you looking for collaberators (on this project or another)?

[Ashenwraith]

Sorry if it came off the wrong way, I'm honestly confused, what are your intentions?

Are you showing us you're actually working on this GG vs BB or are you looking for collaberators (on this project or another)?

I'm trying to get feedback on what the community wants while the game is in development. Most gamers have little to no say on a game until it's basically finished and ready to be dumped on them like a turd.

I could just develop the whole game and not post anything... If I was a major company I'd be showing snazzy concept art and a cinematic teaser while the real guts of the game was being developed.

If you know some people who could be helpful that would be great, but this isn't a recruiting for a hobby game.

[SolxBaiken]

Alright cool, so this is a serious undertaking, well as long as Baiken's in I'm all for it = w=

But I have to ask what's your business plan? You say this isn't a "hobby" game so of course you'd need the rights and consent of Arc (which seems very slim), don't you think you'd be putting your talents to better use by establishing yourself first and working on an original project? Although the former has often yielded to favorable results in Japan (lke Melty Blod for example).

[Ashenwraith]

Alright cool, so this is a serious undertaking, well as long as Baiken's in I'm all for it = w=

But I have to ask what's your business plan? You say this isn't a "hobby" game so of course you'd need the rights and consent of Arc (which seems very slim), don't you think you'd be putting your talents to better use by establishing yourself first and working on an original project? Although the former has often yielded to favorable results in Japan (lke Melty Blod for example).

Like I said, it's good for engine tests, and I do have original stuff I'm working on.

My business plan is to build a kick ass game :P

[Starlight777]

Yeah, all original characters and designs is the best way to go pal. Believe me, copyright will get you in deep trouble.

[Ashenwraith]

Yeah, all original characters and designs is the best way to go pal. Believe me, copyright will get you in deep trouble.

Can't resist... must break law..

[SolxBaiken]

Also when will get to see your original characters, I'm very interested in seeing what you come up with as I love the way your sprites come out.

[Ashenwraith]

Also when will get to see your original characters, I'm very interested in seeing what you come up with as I love the way your sprites come out.

That's going to be a while. I've actually been procrastinating all day because I somehow deleted the idle animation of the character furthest along when I cropped it and saved. I swear, I thought cropping would leave excess on layers... maybe that's different in this version of photoshop.

Anyways I have an older version on my other computer, but I got to go under the desk and hook up wires and I'm friggen lazy.

It's a male character in some sort of modern/light armor. His walk animation is bad ass smooth in my opinion. It's 16 frames and I it chopped down to 10 and it's still smoother than Ragnas, but I think I'll stick with 16 for now. I'm probably going to do all the walk animations where the character walks straight instead of sideways.

I know it's easier to cheap sideways movement like the char is squeezing it's knees and sliding, but we're all about quality here.

Which reminds me I have some new walk animations I was working on for Ky... if I get him done he will actually walk normal.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Ashenwraith

[qwerty]

i realize you're just using those bb sprites to test your engine, but i really hope that's nowhere near what you'd be making for your actual game. that upscale filter is making me want to puke.

I mean really all this talk about 2D being so hard is such bull.

really now? because even arcsys, those people who were badmouthing snkp, resorted to rotoscoping 3D models for the sprites in blazblue. this is in contrast to kof 12 and 13's fully hand drawn sprites, which took months to make (and animate much more fluidly, might i add).

once you've done a little more than throw an upscale filter over some sprites and edit their faces in photoshop, i think you'll see just how hard 2D is.

that being said, i hope you continue your work; especially if that remy sprite is indicative of what's to come.

Edited March 13, 2011 by qwerty

[Ashenwraith]

i realize you're just using those bb sprites to test your engine, but i really hope that's nowhere near what you'd be making for your actual game. that upscale filter is making me want to puke.

really now? because even arcsys, those people who were badmouthing snkp, resorted to rotoscoping 3D models for the sprites in blazblue. this is in contrast to kof 12 and 13's fully hand drawn sprites, which took months to make (and animate much more fluidly, might i add).

once you've done a little more than throw an upscale filter over some sprites and edit their faces in photoshop, i think you'll see just how hard 2D is.

that being said, i hope you continue your work; especially if that remy sprite is indicative of what's to come.

kof 12 and 13 doesn't have hand drawn anything. It's just 3D with a pixel shader rendered out.

BB is pixel art painted over 3D sprites.

Upscaled filter = bicubic.

Try to get the same results.

I don't think you understand the process if you like the Remy but not the other stuff.

1st step = sprite accuracy.

[Ashenwraith]

Oh and btw I got a question...

How is it that shitty MMO's can get BB and GG chars in them--even Capcom characters?

I mean really, you guys don't even seem to want a 2D BB vs GG, but some of you have played these MMOs.

I don't see why these companies wouldn't be willing to give me a shot since it's zero cos/zero risk and mass potential profit.

[darkblade77]

kof 12 and 13 doesn't have hand drawn anything. It's just 3D with a pixel shader rendered out.

http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/index.php

Nope.

Reference design is created for a character(2D) -> 3D model is created -> animations are made in 3D model -> best are cherrypicked -> 3D animations are used as a reference to make 2D concept/keyframes -> 2D set is hand-drawn.

[Circuitous]

Oh and btw I got a question...

How is it that shitty MMO's can get BB and GG chars in them--even Capcom characters?

I mean really, you guys don't even seem to want a 2D BB vs GG, but some of you have played these MMOs.

I don't see why these companies wouldn't be willing to give me a shot since it's zero cos/zero risk and mass potential profit.

They're just outfits, and it's been like two MMOs. Big deal. You want to use the entire character and their gameplay mechanics, even though the games you're ripping off are still in production. Yeah, best of luck getting permission there.

BEYOND THAT, you're just upscaling sprites. You're not even re-painting them. They look bad terrible. The least you could do is re-draw them properly.

If we want a 2D BB vs GG, we'll let the actual fucking creators do it, and do it properly. If you want to make your own game, go right ahead.

[qwerty]

I don't think you understand the process if you like the Remy but not the other stuff.

the remy sprite is about the closest thing you've made to aesthetically pleasing, but even it has glaring flaws.

what exactly are you trying to achieve with this "style"? most of the sprites you've made just look like upscaled sprites that were left out in the rain. have you thought at all about how these things will look on an actual display?

i can see you have some artistic talent, but you're seriously not set out for sprites yet if this is all you're capable of. the fact that you think making sprites is easy tells me enough, really.

[Ashenwraith]

They're just outfits, and it's been like two MMOs. Big deal. You want to use the entire character and their gameplay mechanics, even though the games you're ripping off are still in production. Yeah, best of luck getting permission there.

BEYOND THAT, you're just upscaling sprites. You're not even re-painting them. They look bad terrible. The least you could do is re-draw them properly.

If we want a 2D BB vs GG, we'll let the actual fucking creators do it, and do it properly. If you want to make your own game, go right ahead.

First off #1--you're not ripping off a game if you are giving credit.

I don't even know what you're logic is here. Plenty of companies have games developed out of house and it's rare the same team of creators is even used in most games.

It also takes years to finish a game, but I guess you don't get that.

And who gets rights for a game 'out of production'? What are you even talking about? Calamity Trigger is 2 years old and has a few dlc chars. Every company starts up on another game after the current one is finished.

Good luck getting the actual company to do anything Circ. I'm sure you're really influential over there.

And lastly why would I need your permission to make my own game other than you are acting like a dick because you mod a forum?

Your attitude is really out of line for a development discussion.

[Ashenwraith]

the remy sprite is about the closest thing you've made to aesthetically pleasing, but even it has glaring flaws.

what exactly are you trying to achieve with this "style"? most of the sprites you've made just look like upscaled sprites that were left out in the rain. have you thought at all about how these things will look on an actual display?

i can see you have some artistic talent, but you're seriously not set out for sprites yet if this is all you're capable of. the fact that you think making sprites is easy tells me enough, really.

What are the glaring flaws in the Remy sprite? Some of the stuff is small like where the rips in his jeans are positioned different because I was experimenting with that, but it actually has improved anatomy over the original, while retaining some of the style/distortion and animates BETTER than the original.

All of my graphics are originally and PURPOSELY repainted in upscaled fashion, accurate to the original pixels so that you are getting the truest representation of the character. There were a lot of complaints about how HDized games did not represent the sprites well enough with the animations and style.

Also...

Akuma and Ryu = high sales XBL/PSN game, but my sprite = vomit? Really?

http://i54.tinypic.com/29ghkiq.jpg

And it's no where near finished.

Here's an older sketch/preview so you can get an idea of how Jin is shaping up:

Obviously still experimenting with the hair and what not to get the pixels as detailed as possible for the res, but this is old too and I'm finishing the shading on the final.

My point is not so much that it's easy as sitting around and bitching.

It's easy in relation that you don't have to make a concept/model/create various maps build terrain and architecture for stages, etc, etc like in a 'next gen' game.

[Circuitous]

First off #1--you're not ripping off a game if you are giving credit.

lol, are you serious?

I don't even know what you're logic is here. Plenty of companies have games developed out of house and it's rare the same team of creators is even used in most games.

You can't be fucking serious.

It also takes years to finish a game, but I guess you don't get that.

So what?

And who gets rights for a game 'out of production'? What are you even talking about? Calamity Trigger is 2 years old and has a few dlc chars. Every company starts up on another game after the current one is finished.

Oh sorry I didn't realize Calamity Trigger was the only BlazBlue game to be created and they immediately stopped doing anything with it or even owning the rights to it. They're definitely not making any more BlazBlue games and it's totally okay for you to use what they've done for your own game.

Good luck getting the actual company to do anything Circ. I'm sure you're really influential over there.

I don't have to do shit, you're the one who needs to get permission to ever even consider releasing something like this.

And lastly why would I need your permission to make my own game other than you are acting like a dick because you mod a forum?

You don't need my permission, but holy shit this entire plan is stupid.

Your attitude is really out of line for a development discussion.

Your attitude is really out of line for being taken seriously, either as an artist or game developer.

If you're serious (holy shit please don't be serious), ff you want to spend time and effort hand-painting high-res sprites for your own personal fighting game, then for crying out loud make your own characters and animations and settings and do it properly.

Akuma and Ryu = high sales XBL/PSN game, but my sprite = vomit? Really?

High-res sprites drawn by Udon artists, who also did the Street Fighter comics, used in a game licensed by Capcom, with (initially suspected to be) competent designers at the head, vs. a guy with no gameplay experience upscaling and filtering sprites. Yeah, HDRemix wins.

I'M NOT TELLING YOU TO GIVE UP. I'm telling you not to jack BlazBlue and Guilty Gear characters and sprites. If you're serious about this then do it right. Nobody wants a BB vs. GG game made by some random chump who paints Jin like you do.