[CS2] Bang vs Tsubaki

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss this matchup here!

[Pow!]

Hoping to see some Anti-Tsubaki tech for a upcoming tourney...I'm surprised there is none. Is this match-up hard or easy for you Bang players? Hopefully someone else posts up here before then.

In the meantime, I'll post what I know from playing online and playing a local Tsubaki on a daily basis. :3

Bang's main objective is to stay in her face 24/7, not allowing her to build any Install meter. She also thrives being in people's faces as well so expect her to be in your face when she has Install meter most of the time.

This match-up I feel is in her favor like 6-4 imo. Then again, this match-up is very momentum based.

Her main tool for poking is her 5B which is damn good in CS2. Don't try to outpoke it with yours, you'll get beat.

Tsubaki loves to approach with 236C or 236D if they have the Install meter. From there, they will begin their pressure with 5BB > 2BB > ...

If you get caught in their pressure keep watch for charge cancels with 2D, 6A overhead, 6B lows, jump cancels, 236C (which breaks 1 primer), and 22D unblockable. (Ugh.)

Also, don't jump in on a crouching Tsubaki player. Probably one of the best Anti-Airs in the game, her 2C dominates all who tries to jump in for free.

This is what I do against Tsubaki:

A/B/C/D Nails are always a great way to approach Tsubaki but try to use them sparingly.

If the Tsubaki approaches you with 236C / 236D and they try to throw out an attack afterwards, you can throw out a 2D to stuff anything they do and score a free CH combo.

j.B beats Tsubaki's air to air game in a heartbeat. She has terrible Air to Air normals.

If you got 4 seals, USE FRKZ. She can't deal with the peer amount of manliness Bang has to offer.

If I remember anything else, I'll be sure to post it here!

Edited August 30, 2011 by Pow!

[Star-Demon]

Tsubaki Install vs Bang Install

I wouldn't use FRKZ in this - Tsubaki can just push buttons. Bang can't Block.

[iw2ma]

Ground to ground, ground to air, air to ground, and air to air... i feel Tsubaki beats Bang in all of these.

Just from my experience though.

[BenB]

Indeed, do not let her any install meter, if she gets 2 installs she can get away from any okizeme with a safe dragon (aka 623D j236D j214C).

If she has those install, try to meaty with 2D most of the time, it "can" beat most of Tsubaki's DP (well, at least you won't be on blockstun, it's a good point).

DO NOT TRY to rush her down without any nails. Her 2C is a pain is the ass even if you try to j.4B crossup, it will just fail resulting in giving her a fullscreen 3k+ combo + Oki. And since her 2C is fast, you can't IAD > Air backdash > C nail as she will just block/backdash/back jump.

Watch out for her 236D. All nails can beat her 236D but the D version is more reliable since you can stop her in the middle of her move (and get a combo afterward). You can even daifunka into her 236D if you are quick enough, or if you saw it coming (I did it once...feels good man).

Be careful, she has a karathrow (6C~B+C) which makes her grab from a long distance (but not THAT long too). It can be really surprising and she will 3k combo in your face ):.

You can try to wake up 6D sometimes, but it will lose to any of her move if you try to TP counter her. So I recommand you not try the CH, and make it safe by using the C teleport.

Tsubaki will, most of the time, try to 214C after she used jD from a really high height. Only 2 words: MIND IT. You can IB dash 5A or you can try a well timed 5C...Nah, forget it :v.

jA is really good against Tsubaki's air moves, from what I saw.

She may try to 214D after a 236D when she has 2 installs or more. Don't make it touch you.

That's pretty much all I have, you'll have a lot of work, especially since her 236C is positive on block (if you don't IB).

[Airk]

Tsubaki player here, who has been blown up by Bang a lot lately. (Note: This doesn't mean the matchup is in Bang's favor, just that I suck. My performance should not be used as a measure of much of anything.) Wanted to share a few things:

Jump ins are generally awkward against good players, because as noted, 2C is pretty strong, and even if you bait it with a double jump or something, it can be jump cancelled, though that doesn't leave Tsubaki in a very good position either, since he air to air options are pretty bad. Smart Tsubaki players will not try to engage you air to air, but will jump around to try to get a jump-in (her air to ground options are good) and to screw up your ground approaches.

236C confuses a lot of people, because it's not "plus on block" or "punishable on block" or "You can counterhit anything afterwards with 2D on block" or ANYTHING reliably; The relative plus/minus of the move is like Bang's 3C - the further it travels before it makes contact with you, the more plus on block it is. At absolutely perfect spacing, 236C is +5 on block, which means that ANYTHING you do without frame 1 invulnerability is going to get you facepunched, presuming Tsubaki follows up with a jab, she'll hit you 1 frame after you come out of blockstun. In theory, you could do a 6D and guard point it, but unless she's mashing, you're not going to hit her with that, since the startup on 6D is longer than her entire jab animation. Reversal Ashura might work though. On the other hand, if you see Tsubaki doing this move from anything closer than about half screen, YOU will have the frame advantage, and you should act accordingly. Be sure she's doing the C version though - it has a red "aura", which B is green and A is blue - because those have the same properties, only at shorter ranges. Most Tsubaki's don't use those versions much outside of combos though.

If Tsubaki is doing a blockstring on you, she loses the ability to do an overhead after the third hit (5B, 5BB, 2B all gatling to the overhead, after that, nothing does), so you can just block low and watch for throws. After 5CC, there is a gap if she continues to 6B, so you might be able to 6D there (6B is a low, so other drives won't work.). If you don't, she will probably try to dash in for a jab reset, since 6B leaves her at +1. The other options you'll generally see after 5CC are charge cancel (which leaves her even, or -3 if you IB'd) which will bait reversals and reset her pressure assuming she can react faster than you, or going into 22A/B/C. 22C is the usual choice since it leaves her at +1 and breaks a primer, but there's enough of a gap that you can 5D this if you see her getting predictable (But be careful, since if she goes for 6B or 22B instead, you'll get CH).

Your best bet in this matchup is to seize the initiative with nails and never let up. She DOES have a DP though, even though it's not particularly good, it's enough to punish holes in strings if your opponent's execution is good, but you should do your darndest to make her prove she's willing to use it, because she gets next to nothing from it without charge (like 1k) other than getting you off her. So, even moreso than on characters with GOOD DPs, don't respect the DP until she forces you to.