[CS2] Noel Vermillion Beginner Questions Thread

[Ichipoo]

Stupid question, but I'm asking anyway.

How many hours of combo spamming on a pad does it take to move up from button masher-tier to scrub-tier?

(If it's not obvious, yes I'm new to FGs/BB, but I wanna main Noel, so I'll sit and learn. Just need a clue how long this journey will be.)

It varies due to how people have different habits and tendencies from each other.

And IMO, you can still be a button masher even if you know combos and Noel players are a perfect example of this. In CT, Noels who got the 6C > BC loop down will usually mash 3C out of desperation in order to do her Drive combo, and in CS1 and CS2, Noel players would spam D, more emphasis on 2D in CS2.

You have to know WHEN and WHICH button(s) to press depending on the situation at hand, which accounts for a handful of variables such as positioning, whether your opponent's standing or crouching, etc.

/2pennies

[M.D. Orona]

True, I guess it varies from person to person and there's no way to tell.

Where I'm at right now is a bit confusing -- I'm learning more about Noel everyday, but if nothing else, I do know some of the starting combo links. But even if I can start a combo on a person, usually it degrades into Drive mashing. This doesn't apply to the AI, they don't punish anywhere near as bad so I'm a lot more calm in those fights.

Most common example: 5A > 5A > 6A > 6C(1) > ("Oh shit what now?" moment) > j.D > [insert D Mashing]

I'm pretty sure it's just that I'm not comfortable enough with the longer combos to feel confident with using them. That's why I asked how much time it'll take. But I guess that's a question for me to find out on my own.

inb4 200 more hours of combo spam

[Ichipoo]

If you're having problems like that, then the first thing you should do is familiarizing yourself with ALL of Noel's normals and Drives. By familiarizing, I mean memorizing which normal does this certain particular animation.

For example: remembering that d.6D has Noel move forward and then do a low sliding kick; d.6B has Noel do an overhead axe kick, etc.

Like anything that requires practice and dedication, this takes a while, depending on how good your memory is.

[LunaKage]

Dude just go into training mode, and get used to it.

hit up training mode while doing other things, Listening to music, watching a movie, playing on your DS, banging your girlfriend if you have one.

And I'm serious, the best way to know that you have a combo down, is to be able to hit it 95% of the time without even fuckin' paying attention :3

[M.D. Orona]

Appreciate the feedback all.

Btw Luna, not sure how the hell this happened, but I misclicked and now I'm subbed to you on YT.

Enjoy it. =P

[LunaKage]

Appreciate the feedback all.

Btw Luna, not sure how the hell this happened, but I misclicked and now I'm subbed to you on YT.

Enjoy it. =P

You're such a Tsundere "I-it's not like I WANT to sub to you or anything... BAKA!"

[Deviru Dahlia]

He's the most legit tsundere you'll ever meet Luna. I know this guy.

And this guy is amazing. 100% approved.

[Sahgren]

Dude just go into training mode, and get used to it.

hit up training mode while doing other things, Listening to music, watching a movie, playing on your DS, banging your girlfriend if you have one.

And I'm serious, the best way to know that you have a combo down, is to be able to hit it 95% of the time without even fuckin' paying attention :3

Yeah, can't get that image out of my head. Have to wonder if she has a controller too and they're about to play each other...

[Murki]

So, I've been kinda in a rut when it comes to midscreen and getting them into the corner, what are the more safe things to do?

I do relatively fine in the corner provided they don't burst instantly, but my mid really sucks. :<

[LunaKage]

So, I've been kinda in a rut when it comes to midscreen and getting them into the corner, what are the more safe things to do?

I do relatively fine in the corner provided they don't burst instantly, but my mid really sucks. :<

Well what do you mean? Like neutral game or during combos or what?

[Murki]

Oh, yeah sorry, mostly neutral game, I mean combos I can usually get the hang of but actually getting into them and being a little defensive by keeping them away when I know they're gonna do something is a pretty weak point for me.

And I know I shouldn't exactly "play keep away" but my defense seems to just be jumping around is what I mean by that.

[LunaKage]

Well, Noel has a really bad neutral game, her pokes are short ranged, and they still lose to most of the casts pokes, but a well spaced 5B can save your life. Noel also has bad air normals, so jumping isn't exactly an amazing idea. Also, neutral drive is a huge risk but it is still a big part of her neutral game.

[Murki]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I figured most of her pokes would be pretty useless unless the person just really wasn't paying attention.

And yeah I know jumping is a pretty bad idea, but right now I can't manage to kick the habit when I've only been getting to play the computer which sits there doing nothing half the time even on Hell. When I get to play humans I should drop that habit again. Think I got the 5B thing pretty well down, so got something going for me.

Thanks again Luna~

[Sahgren]

Well, Noel has a really bad neutral game, her pokes are short ranged, and they still lose to most of the casts pokes, but a well spaced 5B can save your life. Noel also has bad air normals, so jumping isn't exactly an amazing idea. Also, neutral drive is a huge risk but it is still a big part of her neutral game.

So how do you suggest going about neutral? Try to play around their pokes to sneak in and start your own offensive?

[LunaKage]

So how do you suggest going about neutral? Try to play around their pokes to sneak in and start your own offensive?

Usually by moving around what your opponent is doing, like I'll be REALLY risky to get things going, because all it takes is getting hit with one 3C or 2D to make your opponent want to never let it happen again, once they start being more careful and not throwing out random crap, you can charge in and start your pressure game.

[excelence]

Question about this combo -> 6A > 6C(2) > 6C > 4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

I've doing this a lot from almost halfscreen away last week and have quite a trouble with dashing timing 6[6]c so it's either i'm droping combos, blue beat 4d>d.6c or 6c hit and then crossing up because of dash momentum... any tips to get this down easier?

[HexaNoid]

If you're having troubl connecting the 6C properly after a dash, try doing 66 > 6~6C instead. The break between the first dash and the second dash allows you to position yourself better and connect the 6C at the right height to avoid blue-beating and stops you crossing under your opponent too. It might be a little awkward at first, but that's the method I use and I find it really helps.

[excelence]

Thanks i'll try that, when i thought it'll be easy, but the long delay after 6c(2) into dash 6c feels awkward for me

[LunaKage]

Question about this combo -> 6A > 6C(2) > 6C > 4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

I've doing this a lot from almost halfscreen away last week and have quite a trouble with dashing timing 6[6]c so it's either i'm droping combos, blue beat 4d>d.6c or 6c hit and then crossing up because of dash momentum... any tips to get this down easier?

Something I like to do:

If you are having problems getting the height exactly right for a 4D > d.6C, instead just use 4D > d.236D. It's much more lenient in timing and height, and you still get good damage from it.

[AchedSphinx]

Pardon the generic question but I was wondering for Noel, are the majority of her combos timing specific? Like, I'm basing this off my knowledge with Lambda, and it seems a lot of Noel's combos you have to delay the timing a lot of the time to make something connect easier. For Lambda most of her combos you do almost immediately so it's throwing me off a bit.

Is there say, a tactful way to know which things I should time and for how long. It took me quite a lot time to nail challenge 8 for Noel, and I got the feeling that if you delay things, the combo becomes much easier. Also, for the ender 2B > 6C > 22B > 22BC > 6C > 236A > 6C > j.D > 6D > 6B > etc, I seem to mess up the j.D > 6D a lot of the time. For that, should I perform the j.D at the shortest possible jump? Because every time I attempted it in challenge combo 8, Bang would tech before the 6D got off.

Haha, sorry for all the noob questions pertaining to Noel, but I'm trying to see how good I can get with her.

[HexaNoid]

Firstly, a lot of Noel's combos have parts that are timing specific, but you'll usually find that you want to be getting your attacks out as soon as possible for the majority of your combos. The only things that might give you trouble with timing are 6C throw loops, haida loops and d.4D > d.6C in the corner (although this is more of a height issue than a timing one).

To deal with your second problem, let me just start by saying the challenge #8 combo is a bitch. It's a stupid combo that you should never use outside of challenge mode and you honestly shouldn't feel bad about skipping it entirely. But yeah, getting it down is all in the timing and here's how you should handle it:

-Do everything normally up until 22B > 22BC~66 > 6C (the computer doesn't dash cancel in the sample, but it makes it easier to connect the 6C and is also a good habit to get into for her other combos)

-Delay the OpticA and the following 66C for as long as possible; you want to be delaying the OpticA for quite a while, but the 66C not so much. This is to make the next part (j.D > 6D) easier to land.

-Super jump cancel your j.D to make it easier to connect the d.6D. Landing a j.D at the highest point in your jump is usually the best way to go about using the j.D > ender combo. You'll cross up when you sjc, so make sure you adjust your combo accordingly.

I hope that helps you get it down, but honestly I would be using this version of the combo (as well as the other optimised challenge combos found in that video) instead.

Hope this has helped.

And also,

sorry for all the noob questions pertaining to Noel, but I'm trying to see how good I can get with her.

no question is too dumb, just ask away and we will do our best to answer.

Don't worry about it, dude.

[AchedSphinx]

Thanks a ton Hexa, your advice really helps me out. I don't think I'm far along enough to do haida loops and whatnot, but this info is a good benchmark to see how far I can go with her. I think I'll be spending a lot of time tonight perfecting her optimized combos. Thanks for the link! :D

Edit: Argh, oddly enough I'm having a bit of trouble with dash cancelling and following up with 6C. For Challenge 9, I managed to complete the combo without doing the dash cancel, but I think it'd be easier if I did dash cancel. How long am I supposed to wait to follow up with 6C, I almost seem to miss the 6C when I dash cancel into it.

Edited December 10, 2011 by AchedSphinx

[AchedSphinx]

Okay, so I completed all of the challenge mode combos, as well as Hex's advanced combos on his youtube, and picked through the list of combos Noel has in the archives. I decided to just pick a few combos I'm able to do easily, whereas I'm having a lot of trouble with dash cancel combos and the haida loop. I don't think I need a crazy assortment of combos, I have an air throw combo, a corner throw combo, a crouching cross up combo, and a few bnbs with 2D starters, is that enough to be viable with Noel? I'm worried about dash canceling combos and haida loops the most. Are those really needed? Because I can't figure out how to follow up a move after she does a dash cancel, she just stands there

[Raptor]

Since the dash cancel after 22C is a....dash cancel, you won't be able to do anything till the animation finishes unlike a regular dash.

If you are trying to combo off of a 22C>dash cancel, doing 22BBBBC>dash cancel>regular dash (optional)>6C usually allows enough untechable time for your dash animation to finish. (5 hits from 22B I think is the magic number for that)

The alternative is to do only 22BC>regular dash>6C like it was in CS1.

Haida loops will be taken out in general at CSEX thanks to repeat proration on 22B, so you don't have to worry about that (although it has been shown to have loop holes). However, dash cancelling will definitly enhance your midscreen combo potential. You land a random knockdown and 22C from far away, dash cancelling will enable you to reach him. You want damage? Repeated 22Bs provide a healthy amount of damage and you will still be able to combo off it with 22C>dash cancel.

[HexaNoid]

You can quite literally mash out 6C after a 22C~66 dash cancel, so don't be afraid of trying to get the timing down to a tee or anything. You might need to delay the 6C a little for certain combos (like haidas), but for the most part you should be fine just mashing it out.

And like Raptor said, haida loops will be taken out of CSX so whether you think they're worth learning or not is up to you.