[CS2] Hakumen vs Valkenhayn

[Spark]

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Punishes:

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

[BladeOfJustice7]

I could use some advice in this match up. Since I got consistently blown up by it at a major in my area this past weekend. From personal experience and watching matches, your gameplay changes playing against wolf form and human form valk.

Human form, has less mobility and no reversal except for his ground super. As such it looks like this is the best time to pressure him and to generally be on the offence.

Wolf form, has very fast attacks an 8-way dash and I would say an insane crossup mixup game. Forcing you to be on the defence and hope for a gap in block strings to land a 5a or 2a.

Thoughts?

[YukiBlue]

Human Forme - Offensive, respect his range. When he is in range, so are you. Pressure him as much as you can to prevent any Wolf Forme bullshit.

Wolf Forme - 5C/4C/2A/5A = Best Tools. Other than that, Hope he is dumb and does a 6 Dash towards you, If not just block and 2A after the upwards bite, or 2C if he jumps.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Any important normals, or specials I should watch out for in both forms? Advice is appreciated

[Arcknight]

You can still 5A his wolf form out of the air after a transform cancel (after a 236 move). I have done this a lot, however, be careful. If they get to expecting it they will delay the dash in or go another approach entirely. I seem to have more trouble with the CS2 Valk myself. Yuki covered the rest pretty well.

[YukiBlue]

Any important normals, or specials I should watch out for in both forms? Advice is appreciated

Nacht Jager - 2 Lows, Pretty Fast, leads to about 4K on a good day. Respect His kicks. , his j.2C is predictable, though, It's his only good tool for attacking you in the air. So a j.D would be a good response.

If you manage to block his Special and he doesnt RC, you u can get a free D/Yuki/Astral on his final kick, Although it's situational, if you BB, he is pushed further away so getting the D becomes impossible, I think...Not sure, but if you dont BB, you get Chip damage. So make sure you can take it.

Nacht Rozen is amazingly easy to punish on block.

Fear his 5B. It's a great poke, and comes out faster than 4C.

[Arcknight]

I seem to be getting blown up a lot in this match-up. It feels harder than it was in CS1 for some reason although I am not sure much has changed. It just seems like Valk's pokes/bites are all better than Haku's and his wolf dash is faster than any of his air-unblockables with big hit-boxes. I think I need more practice.

It seems more like fighting CS1 Ragna now.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Arcknight

[psycofang2]

I seem to be getting blown up a lot in this match-up. It feels harder than it was in CS1 for some reason although I am not sure much has changed. It just seems like Valk's pokes/bites are all better than Haku's and his wolf dash is faster than any of his air-unblockables with big hit-boxes. I think I need more practice.

It seems more like fighting CS1 Ragna now.

you technically shouldnt be letting him get in, haku is now part zoner, i learned this vs some very good and very bad valks. basically youll want to control as much space as possible and react to his movements. do not let him get in and start a wolf block string the wolf 5c ja is near unreactible. his wolf moves are fast but he cant block.

if you can control and move in slowly you need to work fear into then, valk has very little defensive options outside of IB 6A IB AH and 4D which wil get him hit.

more or less the best method is try to to work him to the corner and try to control his options. his human normals are long but slow block/ib them and interrupt the succesive attack if you can.

now his jC can be a near instant overhead if he uses 5B or 5C so youll have to react to that. in the air his normals arent too powerful just long. thing is in this match up your biggest worry is the corner and wolf form. some hakus to combat wolf form will sit there and block and try to D their way out or IB 2A.

Or a more agile type player will move around duck and dodge. its riskier but the valk player will have to work harder to trap you down and itll waste wolf meter.

valk isnt too dangerous as long as you dont just go straight to him, try shutting down as much of his options as possible, your range vs his is a bit equal, but your mind game level is alot stronger due to special cancels.

Edited June 15, 2011 by psycofang2

[BladeOfJustice7]

Valk's pokes/bites are all better than Haku's

I doubt that, I know I've heard his 2a isn't very good for one thing. His wolf form pokes are what you have to watch out for.

I would say another thing to watch out for is his wolf form 5b, that got me a lot. it's a legit AA that will get you every time, I didn't even clash with it.

It seems more like fighting CS1 Ragna now.

I wouldn't say so with form having unreactible mix up and a wicked 8 way dash.

[IndigoNovember]

We shouldn't be using Zanshin much in this matchup should we? Valkenhayn seems to be able to cancel his bigger moves into wolf dash, so you're left with catching small moves which is a whole lot harder and riskier.

[Sophisticat]

Valk is just about better in everything than Haku except defense. There is no contest: Valk is definitely an ugly 6-4 matchup at best.

However, he has poor defensive options and relatively low hp. Best I can say here is that you should treat this matchup as you would Hazama and get your hits where you can. Valk is nearly as mobile as Tao, and more dangerous since Wolf mixup is very strong. His combos carry to the corner easily and he'll run a train on you so don't autopilot to counters or you're meat since he's got 10+ ways to bait them.

I can't offer any specific counter-measures atm aside from vague tactics, but I would caution against being overly aggressive vs. Valk unless the other guy is defensive by nature; the tradeoff is not in your favour as he simply outdamages you if caught in a 2c CH trade or something like it. Stick to your defense and poke through gaps. Don't waste mag as Valk can bait your stuff as mentioned earlier.

Otherwise, Psycho's bit on spacing/zoning is spot-on. Valk is hella aggressive, but is weak to being countered. He can weave and bob around your jabbing, but strong fundamental play certainly helps.

Sa'll I got right now, and this is as a guy who mains both Valk and Haku. Just take my word that Valk >>> Haku in everything except defense.

[SansProtocol]

It's not that bad, write-up coming soon. Counters are less useful in the matchup, stick to 5A/2A, Hotaru, j.C.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Valkenhayn is hella aggressive, the exact opposite in gameplay of hakumen. I'll just say a few things with regards to this matchup;

Human mode has damage but less mobility, and he only has a fairly good AA. Pressure him and keep him from going wolf form, stay mobile in this matchup, staying still will get you killed. Counters are viable in the match, but ONLY in human mode since he doesn't have an mvc3 pringles high low mixup/cross up game (crossups come from a properly spaced wolf cannon). Human form as stated earlier has limited defensive options, to once you get him to block try to put pressure on his limited primers and open him up while being wary of his meter (ground super is a pretty good reversal). He doesn't really a choice but to take it.

Wolf mode, keep yourself mobile, don't stand still but rather jump a lot so when he charges in you can barrier chicken block his pressure, since there's no way you will block everything wolf form throws at you. Now counters, I would only advise an occasionally yukikaze, since it takes high/mid/low attacks which is difficult/impossible to predict with normal counters against wolf form when it's up in your face. However don't abuse yukikaze since wolf form still has 7c as a fake out to bait moves. Only use it when you see him in your face, breathing your air all the time when he goes wolf. Otherwise try to hit him out of it with 2a/b. Jc ad 4c I would say is completely useless against wolf form since he will most likely go around it with relative ease and hit you, especially with 5b, which is a great AA that can be mashed. So don't try to attack wolf form.

[SansProtocol]

Moves to use and why:

• 2A: Get used to this move as it’s one of Hakumen’s most useful pokes in this matchup. 2A helps space out/CH wolf form approaches on the ground, beat improperly spaced B/C moves, and pressure Valkenhayn in the corner as he has no DP.
  
• Hotaru: This is the equalizer against wolf-form crazy Valk players. Not only is it great against Wolf Cannon/Wolf Dash attacks, but it helps get Hakumen out of the corner. It is one of the only options that you can count on to beat the options Valk has on your wake-up.
  
• 6D: This counter as a good bit of uses but only against specific things like cross-ups, [w]2C ambiguous air dash (+j.A/j.B) attacks, or j.C when your opponent has meter to RC.
  
• j.C: Covers a lot of space in the air and will usually beat out Wolf Cannon movement unlike other moves that Haku has in his arsenal. Since you will connect with a CH most times you hit, it will help put him in a corner to allow you to pressure him easier.
  
• 5A: Generally safe anti-air when combined with proper spacing against Wolf Form. Secondly, if you see a 6C overhead, do not use D but instead use 5A. He can Wolf-Cancel 6C on the two frames before it goes active so it’s good counter-bait. Usually, you’ll score an AA CH which will allow you to carry him to the other corner a great bit.
  
  Strategies:
  
  • Like BoJ said, stay mobile. You should play this matchup like MvC and not make it easier for Valk to set-up good mix-up opportunities on you. Backdash Hotaru is a good tactic instead of TK Hotaru against Wolf Form air approaches as you’ll dash out of the range of his high/landing low mix-up if you mistimed the DP but still be able to hit him with Hotaru.
    
    
  • Do not try to do any sort of obvious jump-ins as Valkenhayn has amazing AAs in both forms. Most times, like after an air-tech high in the air (after a Valk combo, for example), it’s better to barrier block and land then go on the offensive as the other player has plenty of time to get into a good position to [w]5B and trump anything you throw out.
    
    
  • Be mindful of his wolf meter. The lower it is, the smaller his list of options is. Time your attacks accordingly and be patient.
    
    
  • Knock him in the corner and keep him there. Like it has been said before, his defensive options without meter are horrible. Take advantage of your corner dominance and his weak defense game and use air throws to catch him and make him sorry he tried to jump out.
    

  MORE COMING SOON!

[BladeOfJustice7]

Useful CSEX info:

Ground full screen rtsd by wolf form loses to the new feet-only hurtbox of kishuu-enma. You can knock him out of it safer than in cs2. However, kishuu>enma loses to wolf cannon on anywhere within wolf cannon's max range. The only tools I see capable of dealing with wolf cannon is: shippu (7 frames until he swings helps a lot), yukikaze, 5d, hop>hotaru. Other than hop hotaru, all the other options are fairly unsafe and I wouldn't advice using them unless their use of wolf form is very telegraphed.