blackhybrid Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 Thanks Litherain, and why am I not subscribed to that channel... (fixed), and now off to practice.
LunaKage Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Truth be told, I don't even use the non-fatal versions anymore. Though I always use j.D > Reload combos after a Fatal. This is mainly because the non-fatal combos require precise drive usage to pull off, so it doesn't allow much room to register a hitconfirm, so basically you'll pretty much be autopiloting unless your reaction time is amazing. The Fatal versions though, allow you to register the hitconfirm much better, and still pull off a big damage combo complete with j.D > Reload.
hipikachu Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 so it doesn't allow much room to register a hitconfirm, so basically you'll pretty much be autopiloting unless your reaction time is amazing. I don't understand. If you've already begun the combo, why would you still need to confirm Spring Raid? I definitely agree that it's not fun to pull off in netplay though.
LunaKage Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 I don't understand. If you've already begun the combo, why would you still need to confirm Spring Raid? I definitely agree that it's not fun to pull off in netplay though. I never said anything about hitconfirming the spring raid. I meant hitconfirming the string in general, knowing if your drive actually hit. Since you obviously don't wanna do the same exact drive string on block as you would on hit, not every time anyway.
hipikachu Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 True I guess. Too many people let me get away with that online, I guess I should start breaking the habit. I personally just find our drive starters slow enough to register a hitconfirm pretty easily. Mid-string though, I admit it's near impossible to tell when a stupid opponent decides to stop blocking.
Litherain-XIII Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 well tbh its not a great idea to use drives for block strings because all higher lvl players punish it very quickly with no hesitation really. its a free hit confirm for your opponent technically. Unless your opponent is respecting you too much during this situation then ok maybe. but otherwise try not to use it as such. youre better off using your normal to create safer and better pressure/mix ups and can hitconfirm off those more successfully imo.
Moy_X7 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Isn't there a way to chain certain Drives to create frame traps?
Alpha152 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) If you use drive, you only really need to confirm the first or second hit to go into the optimal SR combos which isn't too hard considering how slow most of them are. And auto-piloting the first one or two drive attacks after a drive starter isn't bad because you still have 2-3 options after that and if the first attack hits you can easily confirm afterwards. To further reinforce auto-piloting the 2nd drive follow up, any D > d.5A is her tightest string (which is still pretty ass being an 8F+ gap) so using most of the time is a decent option. Of course if you get a hit late into a drive blockstring you can't do a SR combo. Ya, she has numerous ways to create solid frame traps in her drive blockstrings but anything into the 2nd drive attack is always an 8F+ gap, so like Litherain mentioned good players can react to blocking the first drive attack then DP or mash out. That's when Noel does d.4D :3 Edited June 21, 2013 by Alpha152
Moy_X7 Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Snip I always hesitate to push buttons after blocking a Drive because I think that I'm gonna get frame trapped. An 8F gap can safely be mashed on, just gotta look out for the 4D if she hasn't already used it, well that and using SR as a "frame trap" lol
Litherain-XIII Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 nah just dp through her drives you'll be fine just like always with dp characters.
Moy_X7 Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 That's a big gamble for Jin and his DP C since all you have to do is either cancel into d.4D (if possible) to make DP C whiff or simply just not cancel into anything. Obviously if you don't cancel into anything you're taking a risk yourself but at least you're not in CH state for almost an entire second like if he were to whiff DP C lol. Without meter, Jin is better off pushing buttons, he'll be at less of a risk of getting bodied than if he were to whiff DP C.
Alpha152 Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Yup that's a good point, same applies to Makoto and a few other characters with not so great DPs. If Noel were to do any D > d.6D, Makoto's DP would be low profiled. Although for Jin, using 2B would be an fairly safe option. Especially if you IB the drive starter which will guarantee your 2B to beat out anything Noel does...except d.2D lol. It's a pretty silly guessing game but if she does d.4D Jin's 2B will beat it.
hipikachu Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) well tbh its not a great idea to use drives for block strings I usually don't, but I like gambling with falling j.C>d.6B (for an actually overhead other than 6B), 2D>236A (to CH lows or jump-outs) or 4D>214A shenanigans after a string of normals, in the hopes that they guess wrong when they try to mash out a 5A/2A. I'm aware these are far from airtight, but gimmicks are gimmicks when your fellow netplayers refuse to believe that Noel's drives can be mashed out of, despite what they're told. Edited June 22, 2013 by hipikachu
LunaKage Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 I've found that the absolute safest option to escape Noel's drives is just good ol fasioned chicken blocking. By the time that 8 frame gap is over, you're safely in the air, and putting up a barrier will protect you from spring raid, which will be the only thing that can touch you at that point. The only time you really have to deal with the guessing game is if you block our second drive in the string. Otherwise, one way or another, we are completely at your mercy.
Litherain-XIII Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 awww yea. :') a nice conversation in such a long time on here I can die in peace.
LunaKage Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Sadly though, most of this should have been in the gameplay thread, but since there hasn't been a decent gameplay chat in awhile, I've decided to allow it. For now :3
RockinGamma Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Are you still Doing this? Cuz I really need Help. Lots, lots of help.
SkyKing Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Are you still Doing this? Cuz I really need Help. Lots, lots of help. Could you elaborate on what you needed help with? We'd be happy to give advice, but I think it'd be easier to do so if you gave us a starting point like some exact issues you have or even a video if you have the means to do that.
Litherain-XIII Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 its ok bro uncle Lithy-Kun got your back :D wats the issue?
RockinGamma Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Alright. So, I practice a lot, I seem to get my behind kicked every single match. Even against a friend who doesn't even has the game. I have a video of me playing I don't really know if that will help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ZZya0cSEo
hipikachu Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) Alright. So, I practice a lot, I seem to get my behind kicked every single match. Even against a friend who doesn't even has the game. I have a video of me playing I don't really know if that will help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ZZya0cSEo <1> Don't rely so much on raw 3C. A CH 2B yomi confirm into 3C is occasionally acceptable, but if you confirm 2A>2B>3C even on CH, you're just begging to be punished, as the 3C WILL be blocked. End in 2C to reset pressure (+1 on block), and if you confirm into CH/crouching with that, THEN you can go into your beloved 3C <2> Noels airtight pressure is shit. You don't want to go for that. What you want to do is initiate stagger pressure, scare the opponent into blocking moves he would normally be unafraid to mash out of, or bait reversals such as Inferno Divider for free punishes. The easiest example would be to 5A>delay 2B, 5A>microdash 5A or 2A>2A>microdash 2B. It's up to you to mix up your options. <3> Raw drives/Neutral spacing. You want to throw out 5A/2A/2B for light pokes, and 5B/5C for spacing, and reserve your drives for calling out the opponents pokes/punishes. For example, after a blocked 2B>6A (my favorite gatling BTW), you can cancel into 4D in hopes of a FC against punish attempts. Or at neutral, you can occasionally use 6D to low profile Valkenhayns 5B and Litchi's 6B at ranges where 3C would take too long to startup. Remember, as said above: A blocked Drive starter is -8 on block at best, and will easily get you mashed out of if blocked. Don't risk it often, the reward isn't even worth it. You get more from crouching confirms anyway. <4> Don't pop the distortion unless you're sure it's gonna kill. You're free to reign havoc on his wakeup options when you end in Bloom Trigger, and can 2B tech rolls for massive damage easily. By forcing yourself into the recovery of Nemesis Stabilizer, you give the opponent some much needed time to get up and away. You don't want that to happen. <5> 6B is Noel's best friend. It may be slow, but it gatlings pretty well off of 5B/5C for a high/low mixup. No need to use it raw. And if you manage to CH with j.D or 5C, that also combos into 6B pretty well. It forces crouch, which allows you to go into beloved 3C, and is easy to confirm on block with the 6B>6C gatling. If 6C doesn't come out, it means they blocked it and you should take a step back. Did I forget to mention it's HER ONLY NORMAL OVERHEAD. Edited June 24, 2013 by hipikachu
RockinGamma Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Alright then. Although now i think about it. That video was like a month old, i don't know if it's still up to date with me. I should have thought about that before linking it...
hipikachu Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 And regarding the actual matchup itself: Please dash 5B punish Hell's Fang. You like, need that to become a netplay warrior.
LunaKage Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Always dash 5A punish, unless you know for a fact that the 5B will CH.
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