[CSE] Noel Vermillion Critique And Self-Improvement Thread

[M.D. Orona]

Not free to Hell-difficulty Tager A.I. anymore, though my 2D drive is still a bit dirty.

Any thoughts on linking Noel's normals into 2D (just for Tager)? I know 5C > 2D is unsafe as hell but atm it's the best I've got.

Oh and the use of d.6C as opposed to d.6D is because I got sick of that low ass kick missing sometimes on a bouncing target =|

The damage difference is almost negligible from what I can tell (maybe 200 dmg less?). I haven't checked on the diff in Heat gain though. I probably should look into that xD

[excelence]

Don't 2D out of trying to punish low or Yomi ... well if u want to mix up probably ok ... but dunno, it's better to end any block string with 2a/2c imo, it gives frame adv for crouching frame trap

And lazy advice ... probably try to hit confirm your attack for optimal combo route? like @ 1:20 random 2d hit, instead of ending your gatling with OB, u can extend the combos with Spring Raid>66c>j.d>... for more damage

... and probably not too important advice ... Playing Hell AI may get you develop bad habit exploiting their flaw and you can't mix up them since they break 95% Tick Throw attempts and Read input For high low/ frame trap mix up ... i'll suggest dropping the difficulty to normal, where they're more like a sandbag but more random.

[M.D. Orona]

Advice noted~ Ty~

... and probably not too important advice ... Playing Hell AI may get you develop bad habit exploiting their flaw and you can't mix up them since they break 95% Tick Throw attempts and Read input For high low/ frame trap mix up ... i'll suggest dropping the difficulty to normal, where they're more like a sandbag but more random.

I'll try that out, reason I kept up'ing to Hell is because you're able to play dirty as hell and as long as you can manage a simple BnB for 2k dmg for each hit confirm, you'll most likely win.

The thing that I like about Hell mode is I get punished for being stupid OVER and OVER again. Although the main reason I got away with beating Tager repeatedly NOW is he seems to think his normals are faster than Noel's. I don't get it LOL.

But so many of Noel's specials and drives are easily punishable. For example, I almost NEVER 3C against Hell Tager because I can't. He auto grabs me and I get thrown for 3k :< Even what I was exploiting is easily punishable. At one point in that stream, dunno the exact moment, I know it was at least 25minutes in, there was a round that I lost because--

Every time I 5C > 2D'd, he backdashed, then grabbed.

So he did that to me 3 times in the same round (almost back-to-back, if I remember right)

Yeah that was enough for me to realize "Okay, a good Tager player will destroy this strat. What else can I doez?"

Thus, why I even posted that stream recording to begin with xD

[Sahgren]

I would like to mention that at some point, it's highly recommended you find people in your area who play BB or start going online and playing in player rooms you have a good connection with (2 bars at the least, 3 or 4 bars preferably). As excelence already pointed out, the computer reads your inputs, so you lose out on the conditioning and yomi aspects of the game. The computer can only take you so far, since beating it is more about exploiting the AI than outplaying the opponent.

It's never a good idea to use drive in a blockstring. Mainly stick to using it for mix up (2D cross up and the like) and abusing the invulnerability frames in order to ignore the opponent's attacks. Despite being a purely offensive mode, Noel's drive has rather large gaps in between attacks that the opponent can use to hit back. Tager is a notable case, since a blocked drive can lead into you getting 360/720ed.

[excelence]

snip..

And lazy advice ... probably try to hit confirm your attack for optimal combo route? like @ 1:20 random 2d hit, instead of ending your gatling with OB, u can extend the combos with Spring Raid>66c>j.d>... for more damage

Don't know what i'm thinking back there. U can link 66c from OB

[AchedSphinx]

Hex are you still uploading videos from D-cards? I would be interested in getting my Noel critiqued in the future.

[HexaNoid]

Hex are you still uploading videos from D-cards? I would be interested in getting my Noel critiqued in the future.

I am indeed. Just send me a FR and I'll find/upload the video for you as soon as possible.

[LeonHeart]

Tip for only the Scrubbiest of Scrub beginners . . . so basically me:

PLAN YOUR DRIVE COMBOS. When you hit that D button and get something going it's way too easy to just button mash and say "Hey! It Worked!" but it's not the way to go.

Learn the Mission Combos. Those mother fuckers work. And they're often easy to get into in matches, because they teach you lots of good setups, including ways out of 214ABC.

Imagine those Drive combos combos like the Custom Combos from Street Fighter Alpha. You can just launch into them randomly and waste them or you will feel the pain for it.

Also, random tip: Wake-up DDs. You can get some success if you catch people dashing with what I like to call the "Iron-Man Hitbox" (Similar to Iron-Man in the Marvel games, if you catch someone with the gun, it can be the first hit of the DD and basically act sort of like a hit-confirm . . . Sorry for all the Street Fighter in that post.

Edited December 13, 2011 by LeonHeart
Missed something at the beggining

[Bolverk-GTM]

Learn the Mission Combos. Those mother fuckers work. And they're often easy to get into in matches, because they teach you lots of good setups, including ways out of 214ABC.

214ABC? What the fuck? Also in the very short time I played CS2, I don't remember any times I used the Mission Combos. I used what was posted in the combo thread and it worked better than what the Missions teach you.

Also, random tip: Wake-up DDs.

No. Just...no.

If you catch someone with the gun, it can be the first hit of the DD and basically act sort of like a hit-confirm . . .

That's....not even sort of like a hit-confirm. That and hit-confirming are two completely different things. I don't play this game and I'm not really the go-to knowledge base for it either, but my fundamental knowledge is screaming that your advice is leading this man to a certain impending doom. That's about as nice as I can put it.

[LeonHeart]

Perhaps I put that wrong: 214A, 214B, and 214C are all the same special with different ranges, how are you supposed to note it when you can choose A, B, or C?

The way I've been lead to understand it, a hit-confirm is an attack you can use and make sure it lands, input a Super, and be guaranteed that the Super will connect. If you can make sure the first hit of the DD (that "Iron-Man Hitbox") connects, the rest of the attack will connect. I have surprised some people with this.

Plus, like I said, tips for the absolute scrub of the scrubs. Thus, mission combos. Plus, I see Mission #7 style combos a lot, specifically 2C>3C>22B(or whatever variation of that you're using)>3C>8D. That finds it's way into lots of shit. If you want to be better than the bottom of the barrel, you're eventually going to evolve past the mission combos.

. . . It occurs to me this post would've been better for the beginners thread. I just recommended things I've had success with. Sorry.

[Raptor]

Umm she doesn't have a move that involves 214B or 214C. 214A is her command grab.

Perhaps you are thinking of optic barrel? That has different ranges, but the input for that is 236A/B/C.

[LeonHeart]

Well, addmittedly I don't use it much, but I could swear 214B/C was a move. My bad. Whose got two thumbs and is a total scrub? This asshole.

[LeonHeart]

I'm just gonna pare all that down to: Plan your drive combos. If you're not maximizing Drive combo damage, you're not playing to the top of your Noel potential.

[Kujikawa]

Alright lads, it's me Geckotide, HexaNoid and LunaKage have been really helpful in my conquest to achieve a strong Noel. I plan to reach EVO 2012 and beat some the best players. However, I will appreciate it if you boys could give me some feedback.

Thanks for all your help and remember if you ever want to play some matches hook me up on Xbox Live! My gamertag is Geckotide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tQukx_j2k&feature=plcp&context=C3d34257UDOEgsToPDskKTFyhtGL65EwChy1vzLOW5

[TransientFaith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tQukx_j2k&feature=plcp&context=C3d34257UDOEgsToPDskKTFyhtGL65EwChy1vzLOW5

Uhh. Since nobody has said anything I'll just drop a couple lines in here. Take nothing I say too seriously cuz I suck .

You make...a lot of ball-zy starters. Meaty 6Bs were nice, but straight up 3Cs were kinda...yeah

I recommend grinding down some of the more popularized pressure?/gatling strings. 6A 6B on the ground isn't really good and 6A 5C/6C antiair will whiff more often than it hits as seen from the video. 6A 2B or 6A IAD jD would work better.

With CSX right around the corner here I guess this is a little less relevant but you should learn some BnBs. Spring raid is never the optimal drive ender and can't let you continue combos outside of rapid/corner.

You definitely make some decent use of that high-low 2B/6B which I liked. Maybe try working on hitconfirming 2B into 6A 5C/6C for short/longer combos.

Again take what you like or take nothing. Not like I'm much better than you are heh

Edited January 6, 2012 by TransientFaith

[LunaKage]

Hex told me that wasn't really Geckotide, which is why neither of us said anything, since I wanted to wait for confirmation from the real Geckotide.

[TransientFaith]

Hex told me that wasn't really Geckotide, which is why neither of us said anything, since I wanted to wait for confirmation from the real Geckotide.

Mmm. The more you know

http://www.twitch.tv/stormunity/b/303382790

Am I just blind or...what am I supposed to be looking at here?

[Kujikawa]

Hex told me that wasn't really Geckotide, which is why neither of us said anything, since I wanted to wait for confirmation from the real Geckotide.

I'm not Geckotide, but the person playing is. I simply uploaded it for her. Though I have to question that the match wasn't serious play, anywho, thanks for the feedback and whatnot.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kujikawa

[excelence]

http://www.twitch.tv/jozdrumz/b/308319484?t=148m20s

My fight started around 3:20 and using Noel Started on 3:25 ... forgot to adjust my normal B&B on Hakumen ... so yeah there's a lot of dropped combos orz

and For LOL you can skip to 3:31 ... honestly i'm ready to give up that round XD

[LunaKage]

http://www.twitch.tv/jozdrumz/b/308319484?t=148m20s

My fight started around 3:20 and using Noel Started on 3:25 ... forgot to adjust my normal B&B on Hakumen ... so yeah there's a lot of dropped combos orz

and For LOL you can skip to 3:31 ... honestly i'm ready to give up that round XD

You linked to a Marvel 3 stream.

[excelence]

Err sorry, i didn't see the time embedded on that link ... here you go -> http://www.twitch.tv/jozdrumz/b/308319484?t=203m0s ... i'm using Noel on 2nd to 4th match on that vid.

[LunaKage]

Err sorry, i didn't see the time embedded on that link ... here you go -> http://www.twitch.tv/jozdrumz/b/308319484?t=203m0s ... i'm using Noel on 2nd to 4th match on that vid.

I wont tell you any combo specific stuff since CSX is right around the corner, but a few things you need to work on:

Work on your microdashing, you dropped so many combos at j.D because you weren't close enough to your opponent, also take note that you can super jump to solve this problem too. Make sure you work on both.

Auto-piloting, I noticed you do this in your Makoto match, when you hit an anti-air 6A you always just did 6A > 5B > 5CC etc. you need to stop autopiloting and start hitconfirming. This will help no matter what character you play.

Also tell your Hakumen friend that he needs to learn how to disrespect Noel's Drive more, Driving on Hakumen is a terrible idea to begin with thanks to his Drives, and he let you have so many free rounds because he got blown up by d.6B.

[excelence]

Thanks for the feedback Luna :D

And yeah about micro dashing, will work on that one definitely, and on Hakumen it's easier to do super jump j.d instead of normal jump j.d ... forgot that fact and catch my combo better on later round :D

About Auto-piloting ... usually i don't But my Makoto is a whack lately dunno why feels like i'm zoning off when playing her.

And that Hakumen probably he's nervous since we're on semi final and we occasionally have casual where i don't do suicidal drive string like on that video,... that probably what catch him off guard

and again, thanks for watching

[HIGEKING42]

TOMORROW

[M.D. Orona]

I'll give a cookie to the first person who can explain what in hell's name I'm doing wrong.

For those who aren't aware, all I'm trying to do is Luna's midscreen SR combo's.

And yes, about 4minutes into that stream archive, I do try his "Universal method", which also fails at the same spot -- landing that damn 6C after SR.