[CS2] Jin vs Tsubaki

[Yuushiro]

Going to update these as I have time to gather information from people’s and my own experience and translate what the Japanese are saying in the wiki or BBS

For now you guys can discuss the matchup here.

Basic/Matchup overview:

long-distance:

mid range:

short range:

Best tools:

Best way to pressure:

Their strategy vs us:

Best overall strategy:

[pvtreflex]

Does any one have any tips on how to punish a Tsubaki that likes doing the dive? She recovers really fast from it, and can immediately go into 5B after either whiffing or on block.

[Moy_X7]

DP A, DP B, sj.C, hell you can even Ice Arrow that ass if its getting too predictable.

[bakahyl]

The things that bother me are:

her 5b is probably better poke than jin's 5b or 5c

her shield charge moves are generally safe on block when spaced well and on hit

she has a very good anti air , so you cant reckless jump on her without barrier blocking or fake out using an ice sword

[Chris Chaos]

HOW DO I FIGHT THIS FUCKING CHARACTER!!!

Can somebody help me out here?!

[Frost]

When playing against Tsubaki I kinda always try to 623A/B/C and somehow they tend to work if you can time them right and know what attack she's going to use.

If its actually a skilled played . . well then get ready to start blocking alot and waiting for an opening.

[Chris Chaos]

Man, that is the major issue here, I have no idea what's safe to use against her and what's negative on block or when to punish because her pressure appears to be airtight and i'm sure there are areas where she can be punished. The real question is where are those areas?

Well time to look up some frame data and work on trial and error. Maybe if I post something productive somebody else (or many others) will then post like in the Jin vs Tager thread.

[Moy_X7]

Yup, all I can do against her is just IB Barrier to try to push her out, not push buttons after she does any of the 22X series, and hope that I don't get hit by the overhead lol.

[Kiba]

Man, that is the major issue here, I have no idea what's safe to use against her and what's negative on block or when to punish because her pressure appears to be airtight and i'm sure there are areas where she can be punished. The real question is where are those areas?

Her pressure is no where near air tight.

2BB - 5C is not tight and anything into 6B, 6A, 6C isn't either. That being said though you need to IB stuff to make bigger holes for you to backdash or punish. I wouldn't use barrier against Tsubaki, it just shows you're scared of something you really shouldn't be. Her pressure is no where near a threat. It only gets tricky when she has stock because you need to more alert to unblockables, but even that can be easily taken care of.

236X are all safe is done from far, being +5, but even that may be a problem against Jin because it can get easily stuffed by your 236X.

Your DP > her DP.

Just be sure to throw ice swords too so you can make her charge game harder and even force her to jump then get in there and start your pressure. Tsubaki shouldn't be going air to air with you because she'll lose. Your J.C stuffs all her aerials.

[Airk]

I think Kiba oversimplifies a bit here, but the gist is somewhat sound.

Tsubaki's pressure _IS_ scary, but it's manageable. She can only do an overhead very early in the string. Her 'long blockstring' is 5BB>2BB>5CC>6B>Dash 2A>repeat. The holes are between 5CC>6B (3 frames or so even without IB), and 2BB>5C/2B>2BB (Must IB and use a frame 1 invulnerable move). The only places she can do an overhead are after 5B, 5BB or 2B, or after the 6B or 2A, but those are essentially "naked" overheads. They're not being gatlinged to. What makes this dangerous is that Tsubaki is full of frame traps, and if you mash jabs trying to call out an overhead or a charge cancel, you will get CH, so you have to REACT to her stuff. Outside of the 5B/5BB/2B overhead points, you have to watch out for the following:

#1: Charge cancel -> Stuff. Tsubaki can cancel some of her attacks (5B/5BB/2B/2BB/5C/5CC) into her drive (to 'charge') to reset the situation. This is only really advantageous for her after 5C or 5CC, and will leave her at zero frames advantage. (or -3 if you IB'd the attack before it.) After this, she's most likely going to go for a jab or a throw, but an overhead or just plain blocking (if the player anticipates a DP) aren't out of the question either.

#2: Kara throws. Tsubaki has a pretty decent kara throw to compensate for her completely laughable normal throw range, and good players will mix them in at all kinds of random spots in her blockstrings. You need to be alert, try to find patterns, and be prepared to tech these on reaction.

#3: 22X. Looks like this. This is tricky for two reasons. First, 22C is +1 on block, and also breaks a primer, so this will get thrown out a lot. It's also a frame trap, since it has 19 frames of startup, and leads to pretty good damage on CH. The other reason 22C is tricky is because it looks a LOT like 22D, which, if charged for 39 frames, becomes unblockable, and leads to a LOT of damage in the corner. Your best bet against 22X is to block 22C and try to DP (Probably B-DP) or jab 22D on reaction. Be a little careful trying to jump out or jab 22D though, because if your opponent guesses you're going to do that, they can let go of the move early - it won't be unblockable, but it'll still hit you.

There are other shenanigans (IAD crossups, 236D crossups, probably other stuff I'm forgetting) but those are the major things you need to watch for. Try to analyze your opponent and find a pattern, because if you know what's going to happen, you can probably beat it with a DP... but at the same time watch out for being predictable with DPing, because Tsubaki's 214D will beat all your DPs if she knows they're coming. I'd also be pretty careful about trying to randomly DP at neutral the way Frost suggests. Since your A and B DPs will whiff on her if she's crouching, you'll just encourage her to do a lot of 2A hitconfirms, which doesn't really hurt her game much at all.