[CS2] Jin vs Rachel

[Yuushiro]

Going to update these as I have time to gather information from people’s and my own experience and translate what the Japanese are saying in the wiki or BBS

For now you guys can discuss the matchup here.

Basic/Matchup overview:

long-distance:

mid range:

short range:

Best tools:

Best way to pressure:

Their strategy vs us:

Best overall strategy:

[C0R]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1h9PcgSAQ

Courtesy of a cool Rachel Player.

JK I love you Yuushiro.

Edited July 7, 2011 by C0R

[xlolxlolx]

which ever nigga does that must have several brain tumors to roll tech against rachel in the corner...

[Xx_Hoshi_xX]

Again, I see that there isn't any info on this match as well as many others so I'm trying to get information to you guys on these not so popular match ups. First, I have to say that this match is gay. I'm not exactly sure but it might be in jin's favor but only slightly. Besides all that, here is some things I figured out.

long range: 5c and ice swords

mid range: 5c, 2d (situational), 5b, and 5c (situational)

short range: 5b mix up, 2a, etc

best tools: ice swords, 2d, 5c

best way to pressure: It is not hard to pressure rachel but keep in mind that if you auto pilot you will get blown up. Use frame traps when necessary. Depending on the skill level of the player you're going against you might want to use the whiff 5a< 5a< BC to catch them trying to throw OS. You could also use whiff 5a< 5b< BC but it's a little harder to catch them using the OS so the 5a whiff is better imo. Be cautious of her 2c... it hurts ALOT. You must take it easy but at the same time you have to pressure her as much as possible.

Their strategy: She is going to zone you... you CANNOT avoid this. What's going to happen is she is going to use 236A, 236B, and 236C to zone you. Another thing that she uses is her pumpkin, which in most situations will keep in honest but I have a few strategies against it. Next is george. This can be problematic for two reasons: One being that she can stay by it so if he try to rush her she'll just block and let george attack, and two is say you try to zone her with ice swords she can use her drive to push it near you which gives her the opportunity to rush you. That in a nutshell is the general strategy with rachel.

At close range this is where she gets annoying. Her mix ups are really good so you if don't pay attention it'll cost you. Watch out for her overhead. She can jump cancel 5b and 5a, these are the normals to look for when she is about to use her drive mix ups. These normals are the prelude to her drive mix ups, usually. The drive mix ups consist of: 5b< 2d< ja< jb, 5b< 2d< ja< jb< ja< jb, 5b (jump cancel)< 2d< 2b, or 5b< 2d< jc whiff< BC. She will use these in pressure and if george is attacking you. In the latter, she may exclude the 5b and just go into the mix up since you can't move. While being hit by george (in a combo or as the starter of a combo) it is best to wait until she starts her combo to burst. They will wait to see if you burst before starting the combo.

Our strategy: Do not give her the opportunity to zone you, it makes the match up much harder. Rush her down. Be weary of her zoning tools (the pumpkin, 236A, 236C, 236B, and george). She might also use 632146B to zone you as well so watch for it. Earlier I said 2d is situational and this is how: say rachel is zoning you and you are now at max range of your 2d. 2d will beat 236x, this helps catch them spamming the move. It will also catch them using the pumpkin but I wouldn't use 2d if the pumpkin is already out. Use this sparingly because if they catch on to what you're doing they will just rush you instead of zoning.

Sj is also good to use in some situations particularly when she has things set up like pumpkin and george. You can evade them easily and the only way for her to catch you is if she uses to 214c to activate 236x or if she jumps after you; the only thing I would watch out for while coming down from a sj is her 6a. In this situation this is when air ice swords come in handy. The main goal is to just stay on her whenever possible and if she does have the screen set with her zoning tools approach her cautiously. Another thing I forgot to add is space and time your 5c accordingly. If you do it too late 236a will beat it.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Xx_Hoshi_xX

[Chris Chaos]

To add on what Minoru posted, *because everything he's posted is dead on*

Your 2B

You can use 2B in this fight as well if Rachel is using Lolibellas to stop your approach from close range. You go under Rachels A Lolibella's if you're close enough, counter-hitting Rachel and getting a combo off. Your preferred option would be to block them but this is an option that I've seen work in JP videos and used as of late. It is also fast enough to hit her when she is trying to bring out the pumpkin. It's also a really good mix-up tool to use against any opponent, you would be surprised how well it works to empty jump and 2B the opponent especially since they are expecting Jin to j.b or j.2c or j.c. Remember this is an option, it works if you've practiced it or know you have forward momentum and know you will go under it.

Your Counter Assault

Do not be afraid to use this or do not forget you have this option. If Rachel is pressing you that badly, this is a way out; just be warned, it can be baited like a lot of options so use it wisely since you're giving up heat to use it.

Rachel's Tools

George

If you can; grab Rachel if George is out (This being because she would only drop him since you're that close), it will make him disappear even if she tech's the throw or not, it gives you one less thing to worry about in the neutral game against her. It's by far the simplest way to get rid of him. Do that or just avoid him if you can. If you can't block Rachel pressure (Not an easy feat but it can be done) until an opening appears

2C *AKA Cat Chair*

Be wary of 2C as stated before it hurts a lot and it's Air unblockable, so remember to barrier; but once baited out of her, it's easy pickings especially if you have her in a corner, if not you can hit her with 6C and carry her to the corner regardless. Just keep your eyes on her meter because she can RC, but if she doesn't you have all the time in the world to confirm a counter hit against Rachel because recovery on 2C is really bad.

Rachel's 5A

It is really fast and hits twice and most Rachel's under pressure will mash it out because of it's ability to easily confirm combos with it. It can be a really annoying tool to fight against while trying to maintain pressure against her. If you feel that the Rachel player is mashing 5A on wake up, throw out a well spaced 5C to get a counter hit or use 3C to go under it. You can confirm combos off of counter 3C, you have enough time for it so use it and if she stops and blocks it, throw out an ice blade to recover from 3C.

Air Grabs

This is another annoying tool Rachel uses against characters approaching from the air; if you're not careful she will use Tempest (If she has meter) and grab you out of the air so be ready to tech air throws when making an aerial approach.

Tempest

Since she's one of those character that has an extra meter, you have to keep your eyes on this, Watch how Rachel manages her meter, if she's wasting it, you will have an easier time but if the player is smart that will not be the case. Don't whiff unnecessary moves against Rachel from a distance because Tempest gives her the ability to rush you down and punish you for it. It's also used to apply pressure on you for Rachel Mix-Up; honestly, this is not the time to watch her meter and wonder if it's going to end, you have to keep your eyes on Rachel during this time period to see what is coming so you can block it. If you are successful blocking against her and she isn't so offensive, she is either low on Tempest Meter or has none left; that will be the case most of the time. If Rachel is out of meter, that is your time to attack; approach her with caution because she still has Lolibellas to throw out and zone you with.

Time Over

I'm sure you ALL have seen this happen before, if Rachel has a life lead, she will run and it is the end of the fight before the time actually runs out, you want to make sure this doesn't happen; do what you can to end the fight before "Look @ Time" is announced. In reality, you have 89 seconds to deal with Rachel than your average 99 seconds; that's more than enough time but this situation can occur so I'm noting it so you guys remember as well.

Overall, you want to keep the fight at your pace but remember that Rachel is one of those characters that can turn it around on you quickly. Apply your pressure, look for her OS' and make sure you are ready to block when Rachel is on the offensive.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Shinsyn

[shtkn]

i will also add taht you can punish a lot of her stuff with ice wave. cannon shots, pumpkin summon, frog summon, tempest dahlia. just wait for her to start up an attack and react with ice wave.

[Lucien]

Fresh off of a FT10 set with a decent Rachel I contribute some advice...

Hypothetical situation #1

You pin Rachel in the corner (You need to be more careful in the corner as compared to anywhere else on screen. Remember, Rachel is only one throw/cross up away from gaining the corner and putting you in a tight spot), you land a combo with 214C ender. The safest way for Rachel to tech without putting herself at risk for a reset is to go neutral ground tech and quickly back dash. Her back dash is equivalent to Tager's, so she'll have some invul time. The back dash is also used to bait Jin's 2B and grabs on her wake up. The best tool to use in this situation is 5A because it will catch her back dash allowing you to go for another combo/reset/gimmick/etc.

Hypothetical Situation #2

You're being pressured by Rachel midscreen, she lets out George. The most effective thing that Rachel could do at this point is cross over you during George electric lock. This will cause you to be electrocuted and possibly take a 5k combo. There isn't anyway to overcome this situation other than to kill George when he's summoned, or stay away from him.

Hypothetical Situation #3

You're pressuring Rachel in the corner. When pressuring in the corner, the best tool to use is TK j.236C because it pins her keeping her from wildly throwing out cat chair and other game-changing moves. It also helps to control the air with j.236D because Rachel will definitely try to escape by jumping out of the corner.

[Lucien]

Also adding on to what I stated previously, like Hoshi said 2D is very situational in this match up. However, it should be used IN CORNER ONLY.

I'll tell you why, a good Rachel, if knocked down will:

- Emergency tech and fly towards you using Silpheed.

Using 2D to catch her trying to tech or lying on the ground, is a deadly mistake.

- If Rachel does this, your 2D will whiff and she'll have gotten close enough in to severely punish you as you're stuck in recovery.