Analysis/Commentary/Review/Discussion of GG's story

[Blade]

Argh argh argh ARGH!!!, why do people keep saying he worked on Aria to be Justice!?? I have to vehemently debunk this statement.

The only thing about Aria that is said is this:

Sol:

Answer me one thing! Valentine... She looked as if she was a living copy of

Aria...! No... She herself was Aria... Bastard, was that your doing too?

That Man:

Not at all. But that girl... You and I both...already killed her.

Sol:

!

*Sol gasps and looks up for a moment, but goes back down, even more upset. *

Sol:

Next time... Next time we meet... I'll kill you for sure.

That Man:

I know. I'll be waiting for you, Frederick.

And the only other thing that IS implied by this comes from the first Guilty Gear:

Justice: "...So that's why...I seem to recall...The G..Gear Project...Long, long ago...!?

...That's right...Heh heh. H..How could I have forgotten you? If only we could

have talked one last time...Just the three of us..."

And the only reason "Just the three of us" is assumed to mean Aria, is because of That Man's Backstory "Isotope & Isolation"

Everything beyond that is SPECULATED.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Blade

[redsilversnake]

You do realize that what you cited to "debunk" the claim that Aria was/could have been Justice heavily implies that that's the case, right?

[Blade]

Debunking means "to make clear what is truth"...that doesn't necessarily mean that the truth goes against or will support the claim.

The truth is a series of facts presented, but they are not linked. It's human nature to try and link facts.

[Kitsoru]

...But it's still heavily implied. Sure we don't 'know for a fact Justice is Aria'; but the evidence presented makes that theory incredibly likely- about as or more likely as the evidence we have of Frederick being Dizzy's father, really. And really, most of the things we assume about in Guilty Gear are just that. Implications. Daisuke almost never confirms anything (hell, he still hasn't confirmed Baldhead and Faust are one and the same, and pretty much everyone takes that being fact for granted).

[Blade]

Heavy Implications don't mean you can list them as true in a Wiki Article, allude/speculate maybe, but stating as Fact is a big NO.

[Kitsoru]

Heavy Implications don't mean you can list them as true in a Wiki Article, allude/speculate maybe, but stating as Fact is a big NO.

Well no of course not, but the Guilty Gear wikia is pretty awfully kept up anyway. :P But you were saying why do people keep saying Aria = Justice, and well.. it's because the evidence is pretty damning that she probably (keyword: probably) is.

[danceljoy]

I think we just have to be "politically correct" (that's the only term I can think of)

Example:

Dizzy is Ky's wife= wrong

The Maiden of the Grove is Ky's wife= wrong

The Maiden of the Grove is Ky's lover= correct

The Maiden of the Grove is Sin's mom= correct

Dizzy is the Maiden of the Grove= wrong

Dizzy is heavily hinted to be the Maiden of the Grove= correct

Dizzy is the maiden of the grove= correct

Dizzy is Sin's mom= wrong

Dizzy and Ky are lovers= wrong

Dizzy and Ky are hinted to be lovers because of the chart= correct

Dizzy is a half-Gear= correct

Sin is a half-Gear= wrong

Sin is part-Gear= correct

Justice is Aria= wrong

Justice is hinted to be Aria= correct

Justice is Dizzy's mom= correct

Justice gave birth to Dizzy= cannot be determined

Justice's is Sin's grandmom= wrong

Sol is Dizzy's father= wrong

Sol is hinted to be Dizzy's father at one ending and because of the Necro Install= correct

Sol is hinted to be a paternal figure to Dizzy= correct

However, I fully see Faust=Baldhead as a fact rather than a theory. Laguna is never stated to be Squall's father either as far as I know but the connection is too obvious. I think it's more logical to accept that Faust=Baldhead rather than to dismiss it as speculation. If somehow, Arc Sys tells us the truth that Faust =/= Baldhead, then the mistake is at their part for trolling us.

[Blade]

Thanks, danceljoy...now you start to see my mode of thinking. :D

As for Faust and Baldhead...honestly I don't even think Baldhead was his real name to begin with...even if the Assassin's Guild knew of him or that was his code-name...Baldhead was probably an addle-pated delusionary name based on his appearance while being insane.

I think he goes by Faust now because of the irony of his past relating to the old tale, so that's not his real name either.

As for them being the same...Venom I.D.'d him so it's best to say "Most likely".

In Faust's case it's "most likely" he was Dr. Baldhead. Just like nobody knew that Bruce Wayne was Batman...at least in the main story. We can say that Bruce was "most likely" Batman because of the evidence the audience is given.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Blade

[danceljoy]

Thanks, danceljoy...now you start to see my mode of thinking. :D

Being politically correct benefits the fandom(and my shipping,) especially if you're one of the fans who disseminate canon information. As for you Blade, it's nice to have fun and speculate uncanon stuff every once in a while, but since you're known to spread canon stuff, people may believe it. Anyway, I'm sick of people saying that:

Sin is half-Gear- LIES

Ky and Jam are close- LIES

Dizzy is Ky's wife- LIES

Spreading information that Dizzy is Ky's wife takes away all the fun and mystery. It's actually better to give the hints, connect the dots and find the "truth by logic." If their love status is clear from the start, I wouldn't have engaged in the GG fandom digging up old forums.

maiden of the grove= Maiden of the Grove?

The wiki also has information that

1. Sol is as good as cooking as Jam (where did this come from?)

2. Testament was one of the magnificent three and was known as the Black Knight (what the hell?)

EDIT:

I think it's fair to say that "nobody in the Guilty Gear cast knows that Faust is Baldhead, but it's clear to the viewers."

[Kitsoru]

Just like nobody knew that Bruce Wayne was Batman...at least in the main story. We can say that Bruce was "most likely" Batman because of the evidence the audience is given.

LMFAO what are you talking about? Bruce Wayne IS Batman, in the main continuity of comics, in the DCAU, in the movies (I'm not sure which continuity you're referring to- it does get iffy in some AU's). This isn't an arguable point at all, unlike Faust = Baldhead, Aria = Justice, Sol = Dizzy's father, etc.

In any case my point is you asked why other people THINK that Justice = Aria, I gave you an answer. Obviously it isn't proven yet; but people are going to latch to what seems the most logical- they don't like being jerked around. Yes, we KNOW, it's not proven or clearly stated yet. Anyone that pays attention knows this. But it's a likely theory, and for many people (not me, but I'm speaking the general audience) that's close enough. Obviously it would be better to think 'PC' as you put it, but you gotta just realize that people aren't going to. Not everyone gives enough of a damn.

And yes, the wiki is full of ridiculous info like that (and those idiotic paragraphs of Blazblue comparisons in the notes, and incorrect profile info, etc). I considered going through and cleaning it up a bit but it's so poorly run I didn't see a point when people would just change things back. :/

[prime]

The wiki also has information that

1. Sol is as good as cooking as Jam (where did this come from?)

2. Testament was one of the magnificent three and was known as the Black Knight (what the hell?)

I've been always wondering on that info about Sol. Did Daisuke Ishiwatari add that?!

Now I know it's just an error, yes?

And I've never come across on any info proving about that Testament either (actually I got fooled and blindly believed it once, thanks for the help).

[danceljoy]

And yes, the wiki is full of ridiculous info like that (and those idiotic paragraphs of Blazblue comparisons in the notes, and incorrect profile info, etc). I considered going through and cleaning it up a bit but it's so poorly run I didn't see a point when people would just change things back. :/

Yeah, I HATE "BB COUNTERPART" IN THE TRIVIAS!!

With just little similarities they already list it as "counterpart." The Sol/Ragna, Ky/Jin, Dizzy/Noel is pretty obvious and acceptable but others are just too far fetched and annoying. I know the wiki is so poorly run but I keep on editing it for the sake of the fandom. I'm quite sure that good pages will turn off trolls.

I've been always wondering on that info about Sol. Did Daisuke Ishiwatari add that?!

Now I know it's just an error, yes?

And I've never come across on any info proving about that Testament either (actually I got fooled and blindly believed it once, thanks for the help).

See how the wiki misleads new fans? A guy in youtube responded to my comment about Ragna's cooking telling me that Sol cooks too. I told him that the wiki is unreliable as for now. Makes me depressed that those horrible infos are being read by new fans.

ANYWAY THIS IS AN ANALYSIS THREAD that should be oriented with interpretations and opinions, The GG Wiki Improvement Thread is in Zepp Museum.

[Blade]

Let's just say 'good enough' for fans to conclude to something ISN'T good enough when it comes to GG Lore.

Sol smokes and can build small machines, cooking...? You'd have to ask Sin, lol

There's an old pic of Sol roasting a dragon and drying his shoes with Fireseal, but that's about it.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Blade

[Kitsoru]

Sol smokes and can build small machines, cooking...? You'd have to ask Sin, lol

There's an old pic of Sol roasting a dragon and drying his shoes with Fireseal, but that's about it.

About Sol smoking: I always thought this was fan conjecture as well, as there was never any mention or art of it before, but I recently noticed that in the top right of those sketches in the back of the Overture Materials is the first official image I've found to show him with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth in canon (at least it certainly looks like one; I suppose it's debatable though since this image is so sketchy). Plus it's pretty clearly stated in That Man's backstory that Fred often got in trouble for smoking in the lab. So it seems perhaps he's at least an occasional smoker, if anything. Also Daisuke did mention in the Overture interview that because of Sol being a brilliant scientist, he's invented and built himself various trinkets (his portable record player, his headgear- not to mention the entire Outrage), so that's probably where 'building small machines' comes from.

About him cooking though, that's a load of crap.

A thought pertaining to the picture of Sol roasting meat you mentioned from the back of the GGX Bible: Another thing that seems to persist in fanart is the idea that Sol's ponytail is somehow fake/detachable/connected to his headgear and not ...his head, lol. It seems to derive from old art like that one and that one frame from his GG1 ending that shows his gearbrand, where it looks like he has short hair. IDG why people still seem to act like it's the case though, when it's pretty clear this has either been thoroughly retconned or was just lazy drawing to begin with. We see when Order-Sol's headgear breaks in his Dragon Install Sekkai that his hair doesn't just suddenly fall off. :8/:

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Well, if you have to raise a child and camp often I think some basic cooking is required, especially if you have just a couple (100+) of years, imho.

[Kitsoru]

Well I think it's probably easy to assume he's -capable- of cooking, but that doesn't make him a master chef. It ain't exactly hard to roast a hunk of meat when you have a flaming sword at your disposal, just saying.

And Sin is pretty much a stomach on legs, judging from his profile information, so he's probably not much of a judge of fine cuisine.

[Blade]

To clarify: the smoking bit came from a winquote from Chipp in the first Guilty Gear: "What? You smoke? That's why you lost, idiot!"

As for cooking:

Edited September 21, 2011 by Blade

[Kitsoru]

...Yup, that sure is some gourmet cooking right there.

But boy that Fuuenken is useful. Three-in-one Gear killer, grill, and dryer!

[Redgrave]

Somehow I doubt Sol would have the patience to pick up cooking. He probably eats Ramen and Hot Pockets every night

[danceljoy]

If Sol does need to eat every now and then to survive, then what did the Gear army eat?

O_o

[Redgrave]

Never thought of that... do Gears eat? I'm pretty sure they sleep, do they eat too?

[Blade]

I believe Dr. Paradigm explained it best (regarding Humanoid type Gears):

...humanoids are never satisfied. They multiply like

rabbits and eat up possibilities through mutual destruction. A low grade

species, they are.

In other words, aside from the humanoid type Gears who were emotionally unstable and often ignored orders (Testament, Justice herself), most Gears worked directly under Command Types, so things like eating and sleeping were done "on command", this is why the Gears nearly died out after Justice was sealed. They were virtually catatonic with no orders given. Only those who were capable of evolving past that state and developing a consciousness and will were able to become self sufficient. The instinct for self-preservation was overridden by the Command Type's orders, even on a cellular level...this also effects Youkai to an extent.

I could go so far as to say that the Gears of Ganymede Island have taken a first step towards their own culture.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Blade

[danceljoy]

^

We still haven't answered the question: "what did the Gear army eat?"

I honestly think they ate HUMANS

[Blade]

Oh you mean "what"...

Well, it's a pre-supposed conception that they had a "hive" mentality (that is to say, one leader). Most likely they hunted in numbers...not just humans, but anything they could claim as a resource within their territories. Their primary objective was sheer destruction, not so much to conquer or consume resources.

Unlike humans though, Gears don't necessarily need to rely on food or nourishment in a traditional sense (not by human standards at least). Some are powered off magical energy contracts, soul energy, while others are more osmosive in nature (just absorbing things around them), while others have to create their own comfortable environment (i.e. Paradigm lives in a water bubble).