What Pachi needs to do with the Guilty Gear franchise

[tataki]

Copy pasted from a post of mine on SRK which is getting positive feedback so far from various GG players:

I gave some thought of the whole "I want a new GG" thing and I hope all you GG players would agree with what I have to say:

I don't want a brand new GG in HD graphics or 3D or whatnot, which will probably be ruined by trying to cater to a broader audience.

I think the best future for GG would be the "KOF98 Final Edition" treatment.

Nesica x live, same old graphics, and delicate balance changes that cater to the current GG player base. (And of course console ports a-la 3SOE)

Just give GG the ultimate polished version it deserves.

And I will add another piece of important info: Today's consoles can't handle both a game with pretty 3D graphics like SF4/MVC3/Tekken and GGPO-like netcode at the same time. (Unless you plan it from day 0, bust your ass off for it, and compromise on many things.)

But a full 2D sprite based game is very GGPO friendly for consoles actually.

So it's a win-win situation:

We get exactly what we want- A game that's still of quality, and has good online.

And Arcsys doesn't have to risk a ton of budget to make it happen.

I thought this would be a good place to discuss it, especially since Elvenshadow can actually talk to Pachi...

Their next project is the Persona game, so now is probably the perfect time to brainstorm for the future of GG, when nothing is already planned on their part (?)

Edited September 2, 2011 by tataki

[Blade]

Basically you're saying instead of a new GG, you just want Accent Core with GGPO Netcode.

Sorry but I'm not gonna agree with this. I'm happy with BlazBlue's netcode AND Graphics... I don't see why GG can't have same or better.

[Delrian]

Note the post he referenced mentions 3D games (SF4, MvC3, Tekken) and how they can't work with GGPO. BB still uses 2D sprites for the characters, so it'd be suitable for GGPO (or at least that is my impression from the OP).

High Def GG, sure, whatever. 3D GG, please don't...

[WolfCrimson]

@tataki: HELLL YESSS. After seeing 3S:OE being made, why can't GGAC get the same treatment? There's a petition already for the same idea by Arvoyea, though.

[prime]

Well, I might go for a high definition GG, I mean

• A new graphics with all those big 3D-battle stage and high quality 2D sprites just like BlazBlue.
  
• New stories
  
• New features
  
• Similarity to BlazBlue game mechanics (actually GGXXAC+ game mechanics is fine for me too)
  
• w/ BlazBlue netcode
  
  
  If Daisuke Ishiwatari still might try to improve and continue from GG2 overture, I suggest maybe
  
  • 3D graphics exactly like Devil May Cry 4 or Dynasty Warrior Gundam 3
    
  • Game mechanics w/ a mix of GG2 overture and either Devil May Cry 4 or Dynasty Warrior Gundam 3 or Gundam vs Gundam Next Plus (so that players can try various combo)
    
  • New features (like free campaign, extra mission travelling to any map location after a certain storyline)
    
  • Decent AI enemies and allies servants (if possible)
    
  • More characters of course
    

  examples of Gundam vs Gundam Next Plus gameplay (short video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlELecmPxQ

  examples of Dynasty Warrior Gundam 3 gameplay (short video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFFIZ0v1Mbo&feature=related

Edited September 3, 2011 by prime

[Fenrir Werwolf]

If Daisuke Ishiwatari still might try to improve and continue from GG2 overture, I suggest maybe

• 3D graphics exactly like Devil May Cry 4 or Dynasty Warrior Gundam 3
  
• Game mechanics w/ a mix of GG2 overture and either Devil May Cry 4 or Dynasty Warrior Gundam 3 or Gundam vs Gundam Next Plus (so that players can try various combo)
  
• New features (like free campaign, extra mission travelling to any map location after a certain storyline)
  
• Decent AI enemies and allies servants (if possible)
  
• More characters of course
  

examples of Gundam vs Gundam Next Plus gameplay (short video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlELecmPxQ

examples of Dynasty Warrior Gundam 3 gameplay (short video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFFIZ0v1Mbo&feature=related

Uh? So you want to make the combat game system worste than actually it is? I have the impression you have not tryied GG2 seriously 'till now, since it's not a DW game, but a competitive multyplayer one.

But forgetting about that, there is not already a thread on "what do you want from the next GG"?

[qwerty]

Basically you're saying instead of a new GG, you just want Accent Core with GGPO Netcode.

what exactly is the problem with that? changes or no changes, that's a brilliant idea.

Sorry but I'm not gonna agree with this. I'm happy with BlazBlue's netcode AND Graphics... I don't see why GG can't have same or better.

blazblue's netcode is generously helped by advance input.

as for gg's graphics: they're already fucking great. the same sprites they've been using for years now could honestly even be used in a widescreen game. obviously they won't look "as good" as blazblue's higher res sprites, but that's about the only complaint you could possibly have.

honestly, i don't see why arcsys hasn't already ported ac to a current gen console. the only platform on which you can play both gg and bb is the psp, and that needs to change.

[tataki]

Basically you're saying instead of a new GG, you just want Accent Core with GGPO Netcode.

Sorry but I'm not gonna agree with this. I'm happy with BlazBlue's netcode AND Graphics... I don't see why GG can't have same or better.

KOF98<>KOF98UM<>KOF98UMFE

It won't be GGAC but a tweaked version of it. Buff the low tiers a bit, nerf the top tier a bit, try to fix the worst match-ups in the game, but don't add new shit that could screw things up.

And Arcsys games' online work like crap where I live. But you know what works good for our local scene? Games with GGPO.

Edited September 3, 2011 by tataki

[Fryght]

GGAC+ with netcode is pretty obvious. Shouldn't really cost too much either.

Maybe they could get the good players to make a bunch of tutorial videos, like they have done before, to give players a clear overview of how certain characters play/what their strategies are etc. A challenge mode with all B&B combo's would be nice to learn everything, like they have in BB (but BB's combo's are like...basic, basic, basic, insane 5 page combo you'll probably never use in a match!).

I would be interested in Daisuke's continuation of the GG branch, whereas BB took everything in a new direction (which is way different). I've always felt that GG's system was rock solid. AC had a bunch of additions which were not necessary, but I've come to accept them over time. What do you guys think would be a cool way of continuing the GG series? I'd like to see some new characters maybe. ABA's addition was pretty cool. Other than that, maybe some new visual stuff, such as some new stages, maybe some new music (GG's music is awesome!), but I'd say the system is good at the point it's at. AC's changes kind of messed with the balance, so they might be able to iron that out a little bit, since they have a lot more knowledge on it now.

I wouldn't mind HD graphics, but it has to be guaranteed that the gameplay doesn't change because of it. I feel that with BB the widescreen allows players to run away and turtle more easily, which is kind of boring, imo.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Fryght

[Kyosuke Kagami]

I like this idea.

It's a lot better than having NO Guilty Gear at all :|

[Blade]

Honestly, if you want AC or AC+ with Netcode that's ONE thing....

But wanting a new GG with graphics/netcode that rivals BlazBlue or Overture is another. Arc System Works isn't obligated to cater to the hard core crowd and give them EXACTLY what they got in AC or AC+. If anything, they'd want to improve on what worked and get rid of what didn't work, or convert it into something that DOES work (which is more or less what they did with BlazBlue anyway).

I'm not "especially" fond of Overture's Graphics, or SSFIV's or MK9's (even if MK9 plays well), but I sincerely doubt Guilty Gear's style is going in that route. The only reason Overture was 3D is because the whole tactical gameplay aspect couldn't be realized in 2D-based action oriented games of past Guilty Gears.

If you ask me, you should keep the whole "I want AC+ with Netcode" and "I want a new Guilty Gear" schools of thought separate, since it's obvious you're focusing more on the former than the latter.

As for myself, I miss the intensity and wackiness of the Original Guilty Gear. Maybe that game was broken, but some of the ideas it had were original and fun. If there was a means to play characters with chargeable specials (basically if everyone played like Tsubaki), I'd play it. The speed at which the first GG played meant that charging was the least of your concerns, but still optimized how effective your attacks were. Ky, for example being forced to rely on Level 1 Stun Edge pressure instead of spamming Level 3 all the time like he does in AC, might actually change how he plays.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Blade

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Ky, for example being forced to rely on Level 1 Stun Edge pressure instead of spamming Level 3 all the time like he does in AC, might actually change how he plays.

That's not true. Charged stun edge is a wonderful tool especially for okizeme, but basic stun edge is used in many ways for pressure, zoning, and so on.

[PozerWolf]

I'll differently have to disagree with OP on this one.

I'd rather welcome in a new GG fighting game.

[Blade]

That's not true. Charged stun edge is a wonderful tool especially for okizeme, but basic stun edge is used in many ways for pressure, zoning, and so on.

I'm not saying CSE couldn't be used, I'm just saying that moves like CSE could be chargeable to be more powerful in exchange for the risk (which is basically how Order-Sol and Tsubaki work, even Jin works in a similar way as his "charged moves" act like Forcebreaks). I don't know if you've ever fought someone who spams jumping CSE and Stun Raise Forcebreaks, but that controls a lot of airspace and creates pressure just as much as normal CSE oki can.

Basically, I want to see a GG Mode that lets characters move faster, have more jump cancel opportunities (in exchange for losing burst obviously), and have chargeable moves instead of Forcebreaks. Many characters already have moves that work in charge levels anyways, Venom's Stinger, Jam's kick moves, Johnny's Mist Finers, Sol's Volcanic Viper, May's Dolphins, Millia's Pretty Maze discs, and Zappa's souls.

[zdravkelja]

As for me, Pachi shouldn't touch the game :P He said he wants 3d graphic, simplified system, no FRCs, etc...

But, from new GG I want:

- better graphic (obvious one)

- at least 2 new characters (since it has passed more than 5 years, they should add some. Raven, the obvious choice and maybe someone completely new)

- better story mode (BB style)

- tutorial mode (BB style again, for those who want to learn the game

- keep FRCs. Maybe a little larger frame window, but keep them.

- no major system changes

[Blade]

My thoughts on post-overture characters:

Sol:

--Has a new dive attack (Mighty Mowdown), but this isn't the same as Belial Edge, it'd be more like Kliff's one limb cutter move where the hitbox gets bigger near the bottom depending on how high you start the jump. Moves diagonal like Kliff's j.D.

--Crimson Jacket? (Improved Defense armor for maybe a hit or two).

Ky:

--Holy Brand (similar to Gunblaze, but meant for crossups rather than aerial combos).

--Ground Gatling Combos would be more suited to cross-ups (think some of Zero's dash moves in MVC3).

Raven:

--Probably will play like Lambda (but with Bang's Mobility in the air), with more emphasis on Slow Fields (like Gravity Wells), and firing needles.

--Lots of Teleporting, and being able to turn into a Raven

Sin:

--Probably a mix of Kilik and aerial Chun-Li (rapid fire flagpole pokes), with lots of space control with his Voltic Eye

--A controllable RED R.T.L. that can go horizontal/vertical/diagonal etc. (R.T.L. = Ride the Lightning)

Izuna:

--Invisibility plus sky-running like Hsien-Ko = lots of mind games

--Probably he'll have side-step parry slash moves, similar to what you see in Last Blade games.

Dr. Paradigm:

--He'd probably be a flying type, lots of mobility, kinda like M.O.D.O.K.

--Lots of summons and assists from his Tribe buddies.

--He could use his Aegis barrier and Apple Drop for trap setups.

Valentine (Human Form):

--She'd have Rachel's air time (being able to fly high and float). Lots of potential air combos.

--She'd probably have something similar to Mu-12's Stein's Gunner ability.

Valentine (Robot Form):

--Mobility with more emphasis on Firepower compared to Justice.

--Ground shockwaves that could possibly draw people in towards her for Chainsaw elbow combos (think Shang Tsung's skull combos mixed with what Cyrax can do).

That Man:

--Think the final sub-boss from the first Arcana Heart, lots of firepower, but you have to break through his defense barrier to do damage to him.

--Probably lots of moves like Dizzy and Mu-12, but less mobility.

--Can generate walls to block attacks.

[tataki]

I'll differently have to disagree with OP on this one.

I'd rather welcome in a new GG fighting game.

What if you could get what I suggested in 2012, and a new GG only maybe in 5 years after the squeeze all the juice from BB and P4UM?

And even then it may be crap.

[qwerty]

it still doesn't make sense to have a game like guilty gear stuck on the ps2. it could easily be ported (there's already a number of naomi ports on the 360) and as long as the netcode's decent i think it would sell pretty well as a downloadable title.

a new gg is something else entirely, and something i honestly don't even want if they're going to turn it in to blazblue.

[Blade]

Right now Other Ocean is having problems making Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection's netcode work properly on PS3, nevermind Naomi Board games...I know you guys want GGPO as a standard, but I don't think Devs find it feasible yet.

[tataki]

I don't want a brand new GG in HD graphics or 3D or whatnot, which will probably be ruined by trying to cater to a broader audience.

I think the best future for GG would be the "KOF98 Final Edition" treatment.

Nesica x live, same old graphics, and delicate balance changes that cater to the current GG player base. (And of course console ports a-la 3SOE)

Just give GG the ultimate polished version it deserves.

Phase one complete. Awaiting phase 2.

[tataki]

I don't want a brand new GG in HD graphics or 3D or whatnot, which will probably be ruined by trying to cater to a broader audience.

I think the best future for GG would be the "KOF98 Final Edition" treatment.

Nesica x live, same old graphics, and delicate balance changes that cater to the current GG player base. (And of course console ports a-la 3SOE)

Just give GG the ultimate polished version it deserves.

Got exactly what I asked for. Now I can die happy.

[Hecatom]

so it seems that we the gg players are more open to balance changes for ggac than the 3s players :P

[YukiBlue]

3s cultists are just scared of change. The game is an unbalanced mess where only top 5 are viable, but can you imagine the shitstorm if they changed even a tiny little thing? ;_;

[kosmos badgirl]

I want my niche game to be a niche game forever, this way me and my 4 friends can keep playing secretly in the basement.

[Blade]

I'm used to it mostly from my GGX to GGXX days...change is often good when someone like ArcSys is behind the scenes.