Critical Edge Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Great ways to get in with Relius is using 2D after using moves like 214A and 214B for poking. Usually you'll get a CH if they're pressing buttons or you can force them to block long enough to get in and do pressure. Once you're in, you need to be able to get through their guard as fast as possible. If you don't get through quickly while using Ignis, once you finally break through you won't be able to get the maximum amount of damage without breaking her. Being able to get in, put the hurt on, and use things like 214C on knockdown if you have the meter is your best option. When you don't have that much Ignis meter midscreen and you hit them, sending them fullscreen with 236C and putting Ignis away to start the neutral game back up again to wait for her to recover is something you could also do if you aren't close enough to stay in and pressure by yourself. 5B has good range, and you can hit with 2C if you suspect your opponent jumping in. If you're in the corner, take this for example: 5B > 5C > 236C > 214A > 5C > j.B > j.C > j.236C > j.214A > (falling)j.C > 2C > 4D > 3C > (vertical)j.D The 3C > (vertical)j.D ender is CRUCIAL for the best okizeme options with Relius. There's a bit of a delay in the input for the j.D, giving you the best height to use j.C to catch tech rolls for easy 3k combos, and leaves you enough room to block against any kind of DP or wakeup stuff your opponent might try if they just emergency tech. If you're expecting a DP, you can guard once you hit the ground. If nothing comes out, you can rush in and start pressure again. Stuff like: 2A x 3 > 2B > 5B can recover enough of Ignis's gauge to throw out 214A again to get her back out and keep up the pressure for another attempt to hit them. If you can manage to keep from breaking Ignis, she can recover her meter super fast. If you break Ignis... then run away and try to space them out until Ignis comes back from her siesta. I would love to know what your typical blockstring is. Because that's my problem. I've actually been using 214a and 214b (Even though i get CH'd out of it like every time lol) My blockstring is 5b 6d 66 5d 6d... into like a 6a or something. I can't see what kinda mixup you CAN do, maybe i haven't seen enough match videos, but I'm having a VERY hard time opening up players, especially because everyone just mashes 2a like a scrub and hits me out whenever i try to throw or overhead. I mean there's GOT to be some sort of CH frame trap that I can combo off of right? Try not to throw out 6A too early in the blockstring when you're doing pressure, it's pretty slow. You can also do 236A > 6D(or 2D) and try and fish for CH. There's also doing 2A yourself to keep them from mashing too hard. There's no low hitting moves that you're using in that blockstring either. Using more of Relius's Revolver Action moves like 5B > 2B along with 6D is better. Sure 2B's proration is crap but doing damage is what we're looking for. Also, 3C. 3C is jump cancellable so it gives you options to use Relius's aerial moves within your blockstrings to get through people's guard as well as push them towards the corner because IAD. Edited January 2, 2012 by Critical Edge
RinHara5aki Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Oh yeah, 236a 6d/2d is a pretty good setup... i have to use that more against mashy tagers. So you're saying its not about his mixup, but more pressure and frame traps? Because that sucks if his only overhead is the stupid 6a, or the stupid litchi-style "instant" j.c RC j.b 5a etc.. because I need to make them scared to block high to at least GET these low options, 3c had pretty good options, 6d midscreen and 236c at corner. I'm not going to worry about his oki until i can hit them INTO the combo in the FIRST place lol
Critical Edge Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 No, not at all, it's just that you need to mix in more lows and such to get in high hits like 6A. j.B and j.C are good overhead moves as well, not just 6A.
Kurushii Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 i have to use that more against mashy Soupa's. Fixed :3
RinHara5aki Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) ^ lol I'm uploading two vids, one where it went okay, and one where it just went terribly. And you give me pointers on these matches. Remember, this is like day 3 relius, the one that went terribly made me really want to find out how the hell this character works, because i couldn't think of any options Relius had on the spot. and Mu was just mashing the shit out of 5c/2c/6d, and EVERY single 214a/214b failed. It was sad. I dont want it to happen again. RinHara5aki (RE) vs. shinro_ (TS) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evb1S2zNlU RinHara5aki (RE) vs. k13123414 (MU) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hQBvpBFiPs EDIT: one thing I already see is meter use, but I'll get used to it eventually. I've never used a meter based character in BB before. Edited January 2, 2012 by RinHara5aki
unsanctifier Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 j214B ender would help in a lot of your situations
Rhiya Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 3C is the key Relius pressure normal in my calculations, since it's the only one that you can jc on block to reset strings if you don't have Ignis, and I don't think any of the other ones are +.
RinHara5aki Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Seems like I should use less 5c mid-blockstring because it keeps whiffing for some reason. Besides the short range, 3c sounds like a godlike idea, i'll keep my mind on that. And yes, I'm going to have to really drill j.214b enders into my head, because I use j.214a too much. I NEED that force neutral tech because these idiots are like rolly-pollies and keep getting out of the corner for free when I could have easily prevented that. I REALLY want to get better... My PSR with Tao is already 400+ and my win % is 80, but with relius its like.... 24 psr after about 20 games.. with like 30% win. :[ its frustrating losing to REALLY bad players :/ Edited January 2, 2012 by RinHara5aki
Urichinan Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 There are a few good mixups that people should always remember: 2B > 3C (Low, low) 2B > 6A (Low, overhead) 3C > 6D > Rising j.B (Low, overhead) Jump in j.B/j.C > 2B/3C (Overhead, low) Combine these with 5B > 6D as well as other Ignis moves to keep them conditioned and to make you safer, you can open the opponent up for damage using these mixups. This is also not counting tick throws, fake jumps, fuzzy setups, unblockables or frame traps.
Guardian Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 This character is all about frame traps and situational unblockables. His mixup potential (at the moment anyway) really isn't that great compared to the rest of the cast. He doesn't do particularly well against people with SRKs. The problem with his j.B/j.C is that it doesn't consistently fuzzy the entire cast. 3C>j.C only works on tager and haku crouching. It'll whiff vs everyone else. Some of his fuzzy setups are also meter and character dependent. 6D and j.2D are great for pressure, but opening people up who are good turtles is going to be one helluva task. He's really, really fun, but his son is alot better :-(. I do have a couple of setups that give you a full ignis meter back after a combo in the corner, but it's going to take some refinement in order to get the tech traps down.
Toasty Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Rin, there are a few basic mixups and frame traps that you can start after a blocked 3C as well. If you do 3C -> 6D -> falling jC, it should be solid pressure if timed right, but it leaves you with a few options. You could slightly delay the time between the 6D hitting and the jC hitting by delaying your jump cancel of 3C by just a bit so the jC should CH anyone who is mashing (unless they reversal, of course). You can also throw the jC out late so you land before the active frames start up, then go into a 2B/throw/etc. Just keep in mind that landing and throwing any ground move after 6D won't be solid pressure unless you used 2D instead, but if your opponent has been trained to respect your falling jC pressure, you should be able to get away with mixing them up with some lows.
goldenxservbot Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Im just curious since this is the Relius general thread, what are Relius's matchups against the top tier class in extend? Im talking about Valkenhayn, Mu, Taokaka, Ragna but more importantly against that damn Valk since hes S-tier? Ive seen some videos of Relius against valk but some have him winning (but its a bitch) and some losing So.... no one has an answer to this? Havent been told anything yet
Rhiya Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Don't forget using 9D6 to airdash while also inputting Ignis 6D. That could become pretty useful.
Kurushii Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 So.... no one has an answer to this? Havent been told anything yet From the experience I have so far i'd say Tao and Valk are the worst in that list for him. Their mobility really hurts Relius. I can't really say too much more than that as I haven't played any EC players who main those characters yet.
Critical Edge Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Tao, Valk, and Hakumen are arguably Relius's worst matchups in my opinion. Tao and Valk have that mobility to get around 214A most of his other tools with their shenanigans. Relius might have powerful ground game but it means nothing if the opponent's going to take to the air 90% of the time. Relius's air game is poor as well so it doesn't help to try and catch them while they're jumping around either. Hakumen's counters bypass any kind of Led Ley tricks you might use, and even if you Led Ley Yukikaze you can't punish him. He can counter the second hit of 2D easily... it's just a bad matchup. Also, forget about trying to do 214A at any point in the neutral game, because he can just poke her with 4C. Best you can do is try to AA jump-ins with 2C and play it safe.
soujiro seta Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) LMAO, Tao, valk, and haku also give carl trouble. He can't catch tao/valk, and counters destroy carl. I don't know if i'd say haku is a bad matchup for relius. You just have to play it patiently, and when I say patiently I mean "I'm prepared to run the clock" patiently. He has the same problem carl has. Haku only has to counter nirvana/ignis to counter carl/relius. All haku has to do to stop ignis/nirvana is spam 4C/j.C all day, and there is nothing you can do about it. So you have to toss your usual gamestyle out the window in favor of a more safe-bait and punish type style, or it will be too easy for haku. That means don't go for unnecessary risk, and once you get the lead let him come to you. Don't go all crazy and rush/zone him if you don't have to. Be ready to run the clock, I cannot stress this any further. Use ignis sparingly, cause it's so easy for him to just press D when she attacks. I have another question. Is it possible to RC out of relius' ignis command calls or does he have to go through the animation? Shame US doesn't get EX till valentines . I really want to play relius. Edited January 3, 2012 by soujiro seta
St1ckBuG Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I wouldn't be giving any advice on matchups unless you've actually played the game for a while. No one on these boards is good/experienced enough with Relius yet to be going through matchups.
Urichinan Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I wouldn't be giving any advice on matchups unless you've actually played the game for a while. No one on these boards is good/experienced enough with Relius yet to be going through matchups. I agree, despite some people here having played the game, it's only been about two weeks. And unless you've been playing a specific matchup nonstop since you got it, no one can really say anything about matchups just yet. And on top of people not fully understanding Relius yet, other people are still finding things with the other characters to use, the game's got to develop more before matchups can start being discussed.
goldenxservbot Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks for the replies gents now the question remains how many players outside of Japan will drop Relius because he is "challenging" hate to say this but i expect MANY will, hell ill probably drop him and keep my focus on Carl and *valk* haha
Rhiya Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I don't think he's that bad. Doll gives you plenty of options. You'll just have to think a bit more unorthodox. Like using Id>6D as a blockstring.
Kurushii Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 It's always the same when a shiny, new character comes out. People will flock to them cause of looks, combat style, or lolstorymode but drop them within the first month or less because the character either doesn't fit their playstyle or is too difficult for them to grasp. Can't really diss NA/EU as it happens everywhere. Even in Japan the numbers aren't that great for Relius players atm. That's the main reason I started recording more ranked replays to give more views of matchups. If we get a lot of NA/EU players that stick to Relius then great. They are all welcomed to contribute what new stuff they discover. If not many stick to him in the long run fine. It wont be the first character in a fg to not get much attention.
iTz.WiiTarD Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 hello people, im new to the relius forums, anyway jus a quick couple of questions for people with the game, hows is mid screen combos lookin either damage or corner carry?, i kno carl can have some good pressure is his the same, and last but not least mix up how does that fair to the rest of the cast, thx in advance n happy gaming
Guardian Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Ok after some testing, I found that my initial thoughts were wrong; he can fuzzy most of the cast with j.C pretty consistently, but some people are more difficult than others, and it requires 50% meter to do. impossible: tao, platinum; highly difficult: litchi, noel, rachel, arakoon; normal: everyone else I almost put litchi under impossible, but if you do j.C as low to the ground as possible, then do another j.C, it can fuzzy her. She's definitely the most difficult out of the cast though. If in the corner, you can do the following combo: j.C>rapid>j.C>5B>3C>236C>214A>6C>214A>5C(2)>j.C>j.8/9D>j.C>j.8/9D>j.236C>j.214B>land>5C(2)>4D>3C~ This is a similar combo that's in the jp relius tutorial. You can end with either super, or j.5D for unsummon into tech traps.
goldenxservbot Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 hello people, im new to the relius forums, anyway jus a quick couple of questions for people with the game, hows is mid screen combos lookin either damage or corner carry?, i kno carl can have some good pressure is his the same, and last but not least mix up how does that fair to the rest of the cast, thx in advance n happy gaming They have answered most of the shit you asked earlier read the whole thread!! Hate to sound like a snobby forum kid but its there
St1ckBuG Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Ok after some testing, I found that my initial thoughts were wrong; he can fuzzy most of the cast with j.C pretty consistently, but some people are more difficult than others, and it requires 50% meter to do. impossible: tao, platinum; highly difficult: litchi, noel, rachel, arakoon; normal: everyone else I almost put litchi under impossible, but if you do j.C as low to the ground as possible, then do another j.C, it can fuzzy her. She's definitely the most difficult out of the cast though. If in the corner, you can do the following combo: j.C>rapid>j.C>5B>3C>236C>214A>6C>214A>5C(2)>j.C>j.8/9D>j.C>j.8/9D>j.236C>j.214B>land>5C(2)>4D>3C~ This is a similar combo that's in the jp relius tutorial. You can end with either super, or j.5D for unsummon into tech traps. Video please.
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