[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[BatousaiJ]

Make three categories for character specifics. I've already started a mental list of my own but it would be a valuable resource tied to the combo thread if we had it organized.

Standard Timing -> Tighter and/or delayed timing -> Not possible

I'm sure I'm not the only person that has lost games because I wasn't used to fighting against a particular character and his/her hitbox.

- Edit:

I forgot to add that I like practicing with Amane as my test dummy for normalizing BnBs since almost everything that will work on him will work on every other character in the roster.

Edited October 28, 2013 by BatousaiJ

[Errol]

amane is a piece of cake to do 623c>j214a on. just as a note, good substitute in the corner.

[BatousaiJ]

I'm running into a scenario where the 5B/B > 5CC is hitting from too far away that 236B won't even combo and the DP also has a chance to miss.

The goto at that point in the previous games was to just 22B for knock away at the very least but it doesn't have that property without charging it to full anymore.

What are you guys using for a substitute for cases like that?

[Errol]

236A usually works even if 236B doesn't. there is a point where 236A doesn't even work because it's too far to hit.

if you can tell that neither will work, either charge cancel 5cc and reset or 22b.

for example, against terumi, people who autopilot the followup thing after 5d can be punished on ib. but the range they are at and the amount of disadvantage, you can only hit with a 5a. 5a>5bb>5cc>236B won't connect but 236A will.

[Zouf]

Yeah charge cancel is probably the best, can't do much more since we don't have a tool that goes farther and faster than 236B.

You could still 22D if you have a charge to knock opponent away, or 22B RC to keep the pressure. But there is no good way around that thing anymore.

[rant] Don't get me wrong, I love the changes in CP, I love how Tsubaki is now, but man... I don't know if they nerfed our hitbox, or if the pushback/pushblock is more important, or if the barrier is more effective, but there is just TOO MANY WHIFFS. I've never felt so annoyed by this than in CP. If the opponent put the barrier just for a few second, our pressure dies out immediatly. If he's just a bit far, our gatling will whiff and we'll get punished for it. I've come to the feeling that only Tsubaki is suffering so much of these change. Arcsys did a good job in CP overall, but man they obviously went wrong somewhere in the path of our winged one. But i still love her. [/rant]

Edited October 28, 2013 by Zouf

[BatousaiJ]

I forget that 236A exists so I'll have to try it out.

I've also been screwing around with charge and CT combo extenders to see when it's good to bust out our resources for some solid gain.

I've already got a word file with notable combos and set ups that I'll put in my first BBCP video. As usual, I'll do a combination of mostly practical with some usable setups and a few fancy impracticals thrown in for giggles.

[Adam0812]

I forget that 236A exists so I'll have to try it out.

I've also been screwing around with charge and CT combo extenders to see when it's good to bust out our resources for some solid gain.

I've already got a word file with notable combos and set ups that I'll put in my first BBCP video. As usual, I'll do a combination of mostly practical with some usable setups and a few fancy impracticals thrown in for giggles.

Look forward to it man. Your yosuke tutorials were fantastic

[BatousaiJ]

Thanks, the Tsubaki video will be an exhibition video and not so much a straight tutorial like the Yosuke videos.

I might do a tutorial video for one of the new characters like Izayoi if I decide to sub her or something but I'll see how much I like her.

[Kiba]

Make three categories for character specifics. I've already started a mental list of my own but it would be a valuable resource tied to the combo thread if we had it organized.

Standard Timing -> Tighter and/or delayed timing -> Not possible

I'll get round to that. I won't say when because I don't know when but I will do it.

[Daedron]

So how is the Tsubaki gang enjoying the netcode? Lovely lag spikes at random times, eh?

I have to say it's a brilliant way to make Tsubaki's unstable combo's even more unstable! Smart move, Arc Sys.

But seriously, patch when? ;_;

[Adam0812]

Yer I mean it's decent enough, could be better but to be honest I'm just glad the game is out. Even if I could just have training mode for CP I'd be happy

[BatousaiJ]

Oh, I'm sure everyone already knows but now you can hold D and it'll go into it directly into charge animation when your recovery ends. This wasn't possible previously and it's a nice touch to maximize the charge gain after combos as before, you had to time it.

And a interesting way to try and get some charge in neutral is to super jump backwards and j.236A and j.D as you're coming down. You'll recover into j.D around the time you're near the ground which is where you get the most charge acceleration from air charging. So by the time you land in less than a second, you'll have about 2 charges in that short amount of time.

If they know your plans, there are a lot of ways to stop you depending on who you're fighting of course but many characters will have a hard to apporaching you with that slow orb in the middle of the screen. Worst case scenario, you still have a IAD available to get yourself to safety if need be or even IAD forward for an aggressive move.

Edited October 29, 2013 by BatousaiJ

[Adam0812]

This is good shit bat keep it coming

[Errol]

That's actually a charge cancel, when you use j236a and hold D.

Though if you fool around with j.D, you'll see that this time around they actually made the amount of charge you get kind of sort of the same at any height.

You actually get a tiny bit more charge if you hold j.D until recovery from a normal jump than from a super jump > double jump. but it's almost like if you hold D at any point in the air you'll get almost 2 charge if you hold it till you land.

[BatousaiJ]

Though if you fool around with j.D, you'll see that this time around they actually made the amount of charge you get kind of sort of the same at any height.

Actually not true. The lower you are to the ground, the more charge you get after the first initial charge cancel period.

For a test, try super jump, double jump and hold charge all the way down to the ground and you'll see the difference.

It will go like this

Initial quick charge period -> drastic drop off in speed (you are high in the air) -> slightly quicker as you descend.

You won't even get 2 charges even though you're charging for so long in the air compared to a normal super jump j.D to the ground which charges for much lesser time and nets you more charges (a little over 2).

[Errol]

That's basically what I just said.

[BatousaiJ]

What do you mean? The double jump doesn't determine the charge amount, the height does.

Even if you super jump and then double jump and start charging at around the height of a normal super jump, you'll get more charges than you would've just you did so on the apex of the jump of super jump into double jump.

[Errol]

What do you mean? The double jump doesn't determine the charge amount, the height does.

Even if you super jump and then double jump and start charging at around the height of a normal super jump, you'll get more charges than you would've just you did so on the apex of the jump of super jump into double jump.

I don't think I said it did? I'm just saying that the amount you get is pretty close no matter when you do it, although you even get a bit less from max height than you would at a lower height. the conclusion is the same at any rate, don't ever double jump anymore if you want to get charge, and besides that, if you want charge, you can get a pretty good bit without exposing yourself much by charging at pretty low heights. and j236a charge cancel is pretty nice too. this is true from the j214x nerfs... landing recovery is too bad. while it was sometimes nice to super jump > double jump for charge in EX, it's really a bad idea now in many ways.. and the low to ground charge rate is pretty sweet anyway. you can iad back and charge and get enough charge to put out a j236D even, which is decent for stuffing people running at you.

I finally went and tested it - oh shit

5b>5bb is gapless on IB

5c>5cc is gapless on IB

2b>2bb is gapless on IB

6c>6cc is not gapless on IB but you have to ib a later hit. auto ib for multihit moves only works for 5 frames, and 6c is 6 hits / 6 frames so if they ib the first hit they won't ib the last

Edited October 29, 2013 by Errol

[Errol]

5a>5b still has the gap of course and there's other problems.. 2a>5b, 5bb>2b (ib only or LAG) but really good news overall.

[Adam0812]

5a>5b still has the gap of course and there's other problems.. 2a>5b, 5bb>2b (ib only or LAG) but really good news overall.

Good to know, is 6b still +1?

[Kiba]

Yes.

[AJSmith325]

Does charge canceling normals work the same way as extend in terms of frame advantage? I can see that it doesn't give the extra charge like in extend, right? Also should I even be charge canceling normals and if so does it matter if it's 2D or 5D?

[Daedron]

Charge cancelling works the same as extend in terms of frame advantage EXCEPT 5BB since that has reduced block stun and puts you at -5 instead of -2 like in Extend. It gives extra charge like in Extend, and yes you should be charge cancelling just not too much and not in predictable spots (aka 5B > 5CC > 5D > xn) or you'll get punished everytime. Best spots to charge cancel are definitely 5B and 5C. 2B is -1 on block and -5 when Charge cancelling so never charge cancel that, use it for staggers. But again be unpredictable.

Using 2D or 5D doesn't matter, they both have the same charge and recovery rates.

[BatousaiJ]

God damn, I love 236236C. Haha.

[Daedron]

God damn, I love 236236C. Haha.

I keep forgetting you can follow that up now with 236D! Man, I wonder if there are some cool semi-practical combos you could do with that?