[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[Zouf]

I finally know why my tsubaki can't deal damage. 5B Starter is ass. 5C starter is freaking huge, and you'll deal 3/4k easily with it. Gotta spam more 5C D;

[Daedron]

I finally know why my tsubaki can't deal damage. 5B Starter is ass. 5C starter is freaking huge, and you'll deal 3/4k easily with it. Gotta spam more 5C D;

Seems fine to me, it's really 5BB that seems to kill the proration since you can reach nearly 3.1K midscreen chargless/meterless using DP whiff combo if you start it with 5B > 5CC. a lot lower if you do the full 5BB > 5CC . not sure about 5BB > 5C but I think around 2.6K?

Still way higher than EX in any case. 5B CH into 6C is also really good, of course 5C is even better but considering 5B is your main poke, don't even think about using it less

[Zouf]

Yeah i should use 5B > 5C instead of 5BB now, gotta get used to it i guess.

[BatousaiJ]

Rank of difficulty in learning Tsu in iterations from what I can gather.

CP > CS 2 > Extend > CS1.

Corner oki with j.236A is pretty fun to mess around with and it's becoming common for me to use the corner extender with knockdown with 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.236A > j.D > dash j.B/C shenanigans.

Also, in the training mode, I can really tell that it's pretty ass doing charge motions on a pad since many times I try to do 46 D/C, the input is often read at 426 or 41236 and gives me a shield charge which basically royally screws up whatever combo I'm doing at the time. I'm forced to take very deliberate motions to make sure 46 comes out and it really doesn't feel natural to me all and it's quite frustrating.

The j.D > j.C continuation is nice and I'm getting better hang of it but I've found there are easier, just as good enders in many situations that are harder to screw up. It's only really good if you can end the combo with 236B(if you're doing a j.D > j.C extender, you already used 236C during the combo) > 214B > 22B (charged) variation since it gives you more or less the ideal situation to get charge and get a nice knock away.

The time frame of getting a combo off on 5BB air hit confirm into a combo is rather strict so I've been practicing that as well and the 2C/C antiair confirms will take a good amount of time to adjust to.

There are also (as usual) a dumb amount of character specific stuff where our BnB stuff or max damage combos just won't land on someone (Amane is a douche) and in other cases just becomes more difficult to land.

I'm starting to get the hang of the delayed j.214A combo in the corner and it looks slick and is very nice damage without the use of charge. The proration for j.214A/B/C seems to be better as well since you can actually get more damage off a j.CC > j.214C > RC than you can normally using j.CC > j.214D.

As for using 5C/5B, just know the distance you're poking at and use them accordingly. Just submit to the idea that not every 5B you hit with will continue into a combo since 5BB range nerf makes spamming 5BB a deathwish and 5B > 5C is even less range than 5BB. Just gotta adjust the poking and continuation game, more or less.

[Ginseng]

I would have to disagree with most of the CP claims, but it's probably because I barely played CS2 and Extend (less than 1 hour each haha). I do agree with the harder to confirm 5B or 5BB into air combos though.

Tsubaki's combos aren't that hard to do once you consider the reduced hitstop, and how you have to delay/time the 2CC portions of instant air-dash combos. The other combos actually just require speed in my opinion. What is important here is not trying to greed for damage if you are dropping the combo a lot, and go back to the basics (like CS1 combos).

Regarding the 5BB change, I personally did not notice it that much, but it is definitely a lot more visible especially due to the barrier pushback changes. This means that players will have to start getting used to using 5BB at point-blank ranges, or use 5CC a lot more. 5B should remain as a tool for poking, jump-cancel, or a gatling cancel into moves that help Tsubaki approach her opponent better. No longer is 5B a reliable tool to use as combo filler.

Now, to add on to barrier-pushback. It is probably going to be hard for Tsubaki to keep opponents blocking, yet alone holding up-back. So players should try to find pressure-strings that abuse the increased blockstun, drain the barrier, or at least enable ways to keep pressure with the use of jump-cancels, rapid-cancels, etc. This is especially important in the corner. I may experiment more uses of the crush trigger mechanic if I get to play again. Command throw is great against players who react to Tsubaki's mixup and throws all the time.

I think that is all that I have to say for now. Regarding execution, just practice and try to adjust the timing of your button presses and remember the lack of hitstop. Less hitstop means you have to press things quite a bit faster than you're used to, but it also means there is going to be less of a delay between fillers within the combo. This is important when addressing the corner combos that end in 5A 5C xx 236B 214B 22B. I managed to get that combo down within 10-20 minutes at most and I didn't time anything at all, other than a slightly delayed 5A.

[BatousaiJ]

What's her max recorded damage so far? A little over 10k?

[Daedron]

I can only reach 9.7K using OD, 5 charge mugen and a 6C starter.

I fully expected 22D full charge FC to be the best starter, and considering it's proration and damage (1200) it really should be, the problem is you can't easily do double [4]6D > 236D and you also have to use OD and do something else in the combo before you go into Mugen to get the 5 charge, costing you precious combo time in the process. not to mention you can end the double [4]6D > 236D combo with 214D > full charge 22D > 236236D but you can't do that if your starter is 22D due to the SMP. ;_;

[Daedron]

Have you guys learned the j.214A corner combo route yet? So far it seems to be the most optimized corner combo you can do without charge/meter, 2.8K off 5BB >5C. 3.1K off 5CC and 3.9K off 5C > 6C.

And they all end in ground ender, unlike DP whiff

[Errol]

I know someone has reached 12k.

[Adam0812]

That mugen combo vid had an 11k I thought?

[Adam0812]

Have you guys learned the j.214A corner combo route yet? So far it seems to be the most optimized corner combo you can do without charge/meter, 2.8K off 5BB >5C. 3.1K off 5CC and 3.9K off 5C > 6C.

And they all end in ground ender, unlike DP whiff

Which one is this?

[Level5-Chan]

Challenge 30: Completed. That was one hell of a combos. Always get 11 and 3/4 charge attack.

@Kiba: Thanks for the vid.

[Daedron]

Which one is this?

5B>5CC > 623C > delay j.214A(do it REALLY low to the ground) > 5C > 2C(delay)C > 236C > 5A > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B = 2.8K-ish.

[Adam0812]

Need to stop pressing 5bb......

[Airk]

Regarding the 5BB change, I personally did not notice it that much, but it is definitely a lot more visible especially due to the barrier pushback changes. This means that players will have to start getting used to using 5BB at point-blank ranges, or use 5CC a lot more. 5B should remain as a tool for poking, jump-cancel, or a gatling cancel into moves that help Tsubaki approach her opponent better. No longer is 5B a reliable tool to use as combo filler.

You probably don't notice it because you haven't played the game in years. :P But why would you even DO 5BB if you're at 'point blank ranges'? 5C or 5B > 5C (if you might need to jump cancel) is superior to 5BB in all situations now, so why even use the move?

[Daedron]

5BB gives you more options than 5C, if you always opt for 5B > 5C in your pressure you're severely limiting yourself to be honest.

I agree that it whiffs way too much now but it's definitely not completely useless, just use it with caution.

[Errol]

You probably don't notice it because you haven't played the game in years. :P But why would you even DO 5BB if you're at 'point blank ranges'? 5C or 5B > 5C (if you might need to jump cancel) is superior to 5BB in all situations now, so why even use the move?

the new 5bb is seriously a bitch.

Besides the range issue, the reduced blockstun and hitstun really blows. You can't mixup / frame trap/ and reset pressure at the same time with 6b after 5bb anymore. since they can just mash 2a out of 5bb>6b piece of cake now.

It's harder to connect from 5bb to other stuff. Sure, it doesn't usually matter, but since it's 1 frame tight from 5bb to 2b or 22b or 236a it'll drop if you aren't doing the followup at max speed, which makes it harder to hit confirm along with the reduced hitstop.

[Daedron]

It's harder to connect from 5bb to other stuff. Sure, it doesn't usually matter, but since it's 1 frame tight from 5bb to 2b or 22b or 236a it'll drop if you aren't doing the followup at max speed, which makes it harder to hit confirm along with the reduced hitstop.

I did not know dis. Arc Sys pls.

[Airk]

I did not know dis. Arc Sys pls.

Pretty much. We're seriously approaching 'we would actually be better off if this move were removed entirely' territory with this one. Pretty much everything you can do after 5BB would be better done off 5B instead. =/

[Errol]

in the interest of getting the best combos I like to try to convert as soon as I see a hit. but it's just hard to do that off 5bb now.

5bb is where I confirmed a lot of my combos in EX because that was the time when you could go into a jump loop combo, so that's another habit i have to break. need to press C before going for it.

there are a lot of habits that need to be fixed going to this game. But I think I'm over the hump and I'm liking it now.

[Level5-Chan]

I don't know if you guys already notice about this or the [4]6D > 236D is now the all purpose for zoners, but...

I notice something while doing training mode.

I see that all projectile from certain characters had a foot attribute added.

The meaning of this is that we can't do 214D to pass through projectile like in CS versions.

Just for the info, watch out.

[Daedron]

Tsubaki's max damage in CP seems to be 11.4K, it's practical in the sense that you can do it off baited DP's(well, some...only a few really XD), but that's really where the practicality ends, requires 5 charges, about 40% HP for the OD and of course 100 meter to start.

[BatousaiJ]

I've been avoiding combo videos so I haven't seen the 11.4k damage combo yet but I'll check it out in a few days when I start digging around for references.

Haven't been able to touch the game today since I've been busy but I think I'll try to figure out good combo extenders using various levels of charges and/or AB off common starters.

At some point, I'll have to hit the training mode with Izayoi to see what she's all about too but at least for this coming week, I'll stick with Tsu since there are many things I need to adjust to.

Oh and I got significantly more consistent in doing 46D motion simply my lifting my finger and tapping 6 instead of moving my thumb across which can often force a 2 input where I don't want it and giving me a shield rush.

I've got the DP whiff down using 5A route down on most of the roster at a pretty good accuracy to the point I'd have no problem doing them in matches but 5C still remains inconsistent in the range of execution.

[Daedron]

I've been avoiding combo videos so I haven't seen the 11.4k damage combo yet but I'll check it out in a few days when I start digging around for references.

I don't think it's in any video yet, I made it up but haven't recorded it yet. I'll put it in my 2nd combo video though.

[Zouf]

The 11.4k combo is not pratical at all. You need to OD+Mugen and starts with a 22D FC.

But who needs such a combo anyway, when you can deal 5-6k with any mugen combo already