Kakimori Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 I like all her new tools in general but I'm so pissed they nerfed the float on j.CC! I used to use it for advancing as well as retreat and it doesn't work half as well anymore because she just drops like a stone instead of continuing to move forward or backward. It was like an extra air dash before.
Daedron Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Oh jesus, j.214A combo route in the corner is character-specific. Doesn't work against: Nu, Kagura, Carl, Mu Characters where you have to use 5A >2C > Ender (better off using DP whiff): Bullet, Litchi, Makoto. Characters where 236C whiffs: Tao.
Adam0812 Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Have you guys notice how much delay you can put between her normals now? Seems easier to catch mashers now
Adam0812 Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Would doing 6c > RC > 63214c be useful in a match?
Daedron Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Would doing 6c > RC > 63214c be useful in a match? It would catch people off-guard, yeah. but I'm not sure if it's worth sacrificing 50 meter. I prefer charge cancelling my combos and then going for the command grab as a sort of reset. Of course that probably won't work after the first time
Errol Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Have you guys notice how much delay you can put between her normals now? Seems easier to catch mashers now not exactly, gaps are larger, pushback is worse, IB> DP works between almost anything she can do, and if you delay too much, you're even risking getting thrown between a gatling that's how big the gaps are. it's nothing good that's for sure.
BatousaiJ Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Oh jesus, j.214A combo route in the corner is character-specific. Doesn't work against: Nu, Kagura, Carl, Mu Characters where you have to use 5A >2C > Ender (better off using DP whiff): Bullet, Litchi, Makoto. Characters where 236C whiffs: Tao. 236C whiffed on j.214A route for Tao? It worked for me I think, I'll verify this again later but I'm fairly certain it worked when I was testing her hitbox.
Errol Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 236C whiffed on j.214A route for Tao? It worked for me I think, I'll verify this again later but I'm fairly certain it worked when I was testing her hitbox. bj is correct
Adam0812 Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 not exactly, gaps are larger, pushback is worse, IB> DP works between almost anything she can do, and if you delay too much, you're even risking getting thrown between a gatling that's how big the gaps are. it's nothing good that's for sure. Hmm that sucks, it just seemed very noticeable quite how much a gap to can have now, I thought there must be a practical application. Finding it so hard to get close enough to anyone to use CG. Shame cause it looks so cool...
BatousaiJ Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 I like how half of our combos don't work on Amane and a few select cast requires tighter timing in some paths. 5C > 2CC extender in the corner after knockdown requires micro dash against some characters, DP whiff gets even harder against characters like Bang. 6CC > 214B into 2CC gets super inconsistent against characters like Noel and forces you to go with 5C > 2C(delayed)C to complete IAD combo and much, much more. Oh Arcsys, you and your character specific nonsense~
Errol Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 if they just would've given us enough time to do a 2c we wouldn't have these problems. I think there aren't enough tsubaki players and they don't care enough to work on stuff like this for her. I dunno.
Level5-Chan Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 if they just would've given us enough time to do a 2c we wouldn't have these problems. I think there aren't enough tsubaki players and they don't care enough to work on stuff like this for her. I dunno. I cared about her. I mean we can't give up. We are trying as hard as we could to make Tsubaki strong. I'm trying hard enough on how to approach the opponent head on. Even though I'm still mess the 623A which is, instead, 623C and doing most of her BnB comboes...
Airk Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 if they just would've given us enough time to do a 2c we wouldn't have these problems. I think there aren't enough tsubaki players and they don't care enough to work on stuff like this for her. I dunno. Chicken, egg; Character who isn't given enough work doesn't get many players, character that doesn't have many players doesn't get given enough work.
Errol Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 she is decent, but obviously she is going to take a lot of work. You know, everyone that has played all of the games (sorry ginseng) agrees this is her hardest version yet. You can't keep things simple really, the most basic combos are very finnicky in this game, all of the combo extension stuff has lots of minor details that are different on other characters. things like hitting someone low in the air with a charge and not being able to follow up with 214B. or the odd situation with a forward throw where it (seems like) half the time it'll drop if you use 236B and half the time it'll drop if you used 236C. the way how you have to recognize height when you want to follow someone up in the air even. like 2cc> JC ( whiff) because it wasn't a super jump. having to microdash after a 22b>5d>5c combo extender on some characters, not being able to go for j236a oki on some characters.. all the basic dp launchers having char specific restrictions and difficult timing. we used to have the best jab for combos in the game.. offset by tsubaki just sucking in general. But now we really can't get anything off a jab combo. They made the basic extenders so tight that if you go from a 5a, you can't really do anything. Shit, I think I've been barriered out of 5a>5b>6a before. life is hard. Oh well. The game is still fun. I just wish it didn't take so much work to be able to play against other people. I feel like I need to start a sheet of paper or a notepad that has all of the character restrictions I need to be aware of in combos, so I can remember that 623cj214a works on this character and not that character, that dp whiff is possible on this character but though it's possible on that character I shouldn't bother. And to just not do combos against Amane
Errol Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Lol. just done bitching about it and I go look on jbbs and someone has started putting together an excel file to document this bullshit. Sigh.
Daedron Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 bj is correct Alright, we can remove that then. Guess I just never did it right in my 20+ attempts. ;_;
Kiba Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) Oh jesus, j.214A combo route in the corner is character-specific. Doesn't work against: Nu, Kagura, Carl, Mu Characters where you have to use 5A >2C > Ender (better off using DP whiff): Bullet, Litchi, Makoto. Characters where 236C whiffs: Tao. I haven't gotten the combo to work on Litchi. Tell me this is just me who can't do it. In addition to this, I tweeted this but I'll say it here. 6C > j.D > j.C does not work on Amane. The j.C will whiff. Edited October 27, 2013 by Kiba
Daedron Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 Might just be really hard to do against Litchi. I think I got it to work pretty early on in my testing so maybe I was just lucky. But yeah, I like how we get all our old combo routes back(sorta) and some new ones that actually make our damage decent, but then they make them so incredibly hard AND character specific that even Japan doesn't do them...like what the hell. I thought CS2 DP whiff combos were hard enough already for new players to learn, they'll never get these down ;_; Beginner character my ass.
Zouf Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) I like how half of our combos don't work on Amane and a few select cast requires tighter timing in some paths. 5C > 2CC extender in the corner after knockdown requires micro dash against some characters, DP whiff gets even harder against characters like Bang. 6CC > 214B into 2CC gets super inconsistent against characters like Noel and forces you to go with 5C > 2C(delayed)C to complete IAD combo and much, much more. Oh Arcsys, you and your character specific nonsense~ I always dashed before 5C in the corner, already noticed it could whiff depending on the alignment of the planets. Same thing with 6CC > 214B, i'll never try 2CC, i know it can fail sometimes. The delay on 2CC isn't so bad actually, it's fairly easy most of the time. Better get used to do these right off the bat :\ @Posts above : i think i'll pass on the 623C j214A corner combo. It's too inconsistant to be worth it. And the timing on the j.214A is gay, you can't really make sure it will hit. Edited October 27, 2013 by Zouf
Errol Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 i can confirm it works on litchi with 5a and not 5c. same with carl. Can't test Kagura, but nu and mu, does not work at all.
Airk Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 she is decent, but obviously she is going to take a lot of work. You know, everyone that has played all of the games (sorry ginseng) agrees this is her hardest version yet. You can't keep things simple really, the most basic combos are very finnicky in this game, all of the combo extension stuff has lots of minor details that are different on other characters. things like hitting someone low in the air with a charge and not being able to follow up with 214B. or the odd situation with a forward throw where it (seems like) half the time it'll drop if you use 236B and half the time it'll drop if you used 236C. the way how you have to recognize height when you want to follow someone up in the air even. like 2cc> JC ( whiff) because it wasn't a super jump. having to microdash after a 22b>5d>5c combo extender on some characters, not being able to go for j236a oki on some characters.. all the basic dp launchers having char specific restrictions and difficult timing. we used to have the best jab for combos in the game.. offset by tsubaki just sucking in general. But now we really can't get anything off a jab combo. They made the basic extenders so tight that if you go from a 5a, you can't really do anything. Shit, I think I've been barriered out of 5a>5b>6a before. life is hard. Oh well. The game is still fun. I just wish it didn't take so much work to be able to play against other people. I feel like I need to start a sheet of paper or a notepad that has all of the character restrictions I need to be aware of in combos, so I can remember that 623cj214a works on this character and not that character, that dp whiff is possible on this character but though it's possible on that character I shouldn't bother. And to just not do combos against Amane I wonder if there has been a similar increase in difficulty for other characters (it's too much to hope for 'all' certainly); If so, that might indicate that BB has...basically gone Guilty Gear and made things "hard" to satisfy the "BB is a dumb, easy game" crowd.
Daedron Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) i can confirm it works on litchi with 5a and not 5c. same with carl. Can't test Kagura, but nu and mu, does not work at all. Yeah, Carl might have been put in the wrong category since I didn't make the separate categories until after I tested out Bullet and found out 5A at least still works even when 5C didn't. Kagura might need re-testing but I'm sure the same thing is happening as happens with Nu/Mu: j.214A whiffs all the time unless you do it really early after 623C, any later and it will whiff even in spots where it works against everyone else at the given height. I wonder if there has been a similar increase in difficulty for other characters (it's too much to hope for 'all' certainly); If so, that might indicate that BB has...basically gone Guilty Gear and made things "hard" to satisfy the "BB is a dumb, easy game" crowd. From what I hear Nu has really hard combos now, so does Bang with his relaunch stuff and they're both their BnB's so to say. From my limited testing with Carl, he has easier combos than Tsubaki now, not because they changed his but just because Tsubaki's are so tight while his are honestly not. The rest of the cast really doesn't seem all that much harder, and let's not get started on Jin who's honestly easier now than CS1/Extend Ragna. Edited October 27, 2013 by Daedron
Kiba Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 i can confirm it works on litchi with 5a and not 5c. same with carl. Thanks dude.
Errol Posted October 28, 2013 Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) Yeah, Carl might have been put in the wrong category since I didn't make the separate categories until after I tested out Bullet and found out 5A at least still works even when 5C didn't. Kagura might need re-testing but I'm sure the same thing is happening as happens with Nu/Mu: j.214A whiffs all the time unless you do it really early after 623C, any later and it will whiff even in spots where it works against everyone else at the given height. From what I hear Nu has really hard combos now, so does Bang with his relaunch stuff and they're both their BnB's so to say. From my limited testing with Carl, he has easier combos than Tsubaki now, not because they changed his but just because Tsubaki's are so tight while his are honestly not. The rest of the cast really doesn't seem all that much harder, and let's not get started on Jin who's honestly easier now than CS1/Extend Ragna. Tsubaki's combos are really hard because they're like, impossible to get really stable. I think other characters, like carl, might be hard in the area of getting your mind wrapped around the inputs but when you get them you're not going to drop them (based on what you say this is what I guess). I know makoto got way easier in this game but I don't know about other characters. I'd be curious to know what people are saying is hard with Nu / Bang. And why it is hard. If you just have to do things as fast as possible, then that can be easy once you have it down. Tsubaki's combos are hard not because you have to do something on the very first frame but because you have to do it on the very last frame... Additionally, even if we remove Carl from the group that it is not possible on, We should probably not just 'remove' him. Or we should do something to notate that some characters are really fucking hard to do something on, and it's not worth even attempting. It doesn't matter if something is technically possible if it's just not practical. Edited October 28, 2013 by Errol
pktazn Posted October 28, 2013 Author Posted October 28, 2013 *Sigh* I can't wait for my next paycheck to come in so I can join in on the fun. I wonder if there has been a similar increase in difficulty for other characters (it's too much to hope for 'all' certainly); If so, that might indicate that BB has...basically gone Guilty Gear and made things "hard" to satisfy the "BB is a dumb, easy game" crowd. If anything it might be more of the general system change of reduced hitstop to make the game "faster". That's my guess at least until I'm able to play myself. Though I will admit it doesn't seem like ArcSys seems to put much... Shall we say thought when it comes to changes for Tsubaki. However, we could also just be on the bad luck of ArcSys balancing.
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