[CSE] Tsubaki Yayoi - Combo Discussion 3.5

[BatousaiJ]

2CC Mugen combos are the same as 214D > 2CC > Mugen combos if memory serves.

I thought I posted those a while ago....

[Errol]

just mean I haven't seen them in matches. only seem to be about 3.6k though. guess that's a bit over 1kish bonus.. extra what.. 800 over just using 1 charge instead of mugening it? have to check

[pktazn]

should be able to get a full IAD after 6bb>214214D though.

If you haven't tested for it or weren't sure, you can. Off one charge mugen from 6BB I was able to get 3.9k in the corner. It can work midscreen too if you're close.

6BB > Mugen > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22B

[Errol]

Yeah, I did. Not sure how practical it is though, need to try it in some games.

Stuffs so situational, I'm disappointed. 6bb>mugen pulls about the most out of it that I can see... and it feels like it's only good if you have about 1 charge, or 5 charges (and they don't have a burst). 2-3-4- charges, and you're just wasting.

[Kiba]

I don't think it's that practical because of the hitconfirm.

Though, with one stock in the corner, Tsubaki gets 2.6k of a 6B, so getting 3.9k and IAD from 6BB > mugen is not bad at all.

I think you could use the heat for something much more useful than of a 6BB such as 3CC stuff though. You could use the stock earned from the j.D in the 6BB corner combo and go for 22D > 3CC into 5.2k for instance.

Jya, mugen is still quite specific.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Kiba

[Errol]

I'll just have to try and see. 6bb midscreen, mugen will give you way more than anything else, but then range can be an issue. But if mugen isn't useful there, when is it useful. pretty damn rarely I guess.

"mugens almost.. too good"... Bastard!

[Kiba]

I feel guilty somewhat because I remember saying that a while back!

Anyway, there are those times where an opponent is too low for a followup IAD j.CC from a 2CC. So in that case, you have this. Should save you from going into the 236X > 214X > 22X straight away whilst assisting in your corner carry needs.

Also, I discovered this combo a while back:

j.236C CH > 5CC > 623C > j.214B > j.C > j.C > j.236D > j.214B > 6CC > 236B > 214B > 22B

It's not something that's gonna happen often (unless you're really good at mind playing your opponents), and even if it does, you need to be pretty low to the ground to followup with 5C (or even 2A/5A). I don't believe any other normal works because the CH stun isn't too big.

There are also times where I may use 22B for example, twice in the same combo to deliberately quicken the untechable time. It's particularly useful against those who don't like to tech and it's easier to catch them in resets (i.e 2B pickup, 22D - even w/o unblockable).

[Errol]

Cool stuff. How difficult is the jb/jc IAD? It's only for if you accidentally hit too low, so in that case, not bad? Probably difficult to consistently hit that low but you wouldn't have any reason to do that.

Something else I noticed, CH j214X can be followed up in the corner without RC, but it has to hit shallow. but with RC you can follow up anywhere.. but still easier to get a good combo on a CH. Quite good starter if you can get a good combo off of it (IAD combo for 3k+ for instance).

[Kiba]

Cool stuff. How difficult is the jb/jc IAD? It's only for if you accidentally hit too low, so in that case, not bad? Probably difficult to consistently hit that low but you wouldn't have any reason to do that.

Something else I noticed, CH j214X can be followed up in the corner without RC, but it has to hit shallow. but with RC you can follow up anywhere.. but still easier to get a good combo on a CH. Quite good starter if you can get a good combo off of it (IAD combo for 3k+ for instance).

I figured it would be difficult too but I'm gonna give it a test run later today and get back to ya. Shouldn't be too bad though.

Good stuff.

[Errol]

I tried it a bit, and it seems too hard to me ( or for me).

Notable things:

You have to do just 2c, and you have to JC right away. I think this makes it impossible to just use as a pick-up combo when you hit too with 2c. You have to aim for it.

You have to hit that 2c really low too.. I think there are heights where the jCC iad combo won't work and this won't work either.

But. with practice I could see it being a viable combo path.. specifically for cases like in that video. Combos that are prorated too heavily to get the normal IAD combo.. Quite a bitch though. At least at the start..

[BatousaiJ]

When I hit 2CC too low for full IAD, I end up just going with 236 > 214 > 22 or simple air combo ender but if I have the charge, 236D > dash 2CC > IAD etc etc.

That other combo path is good to know since it's probably the best option at that point if you don't have the charge or don't want to use it(IAD j.A, j.C > 2C).

[Errol]

it's j.B not j.A. I think it's definitely good in some cases. I do the same thing if I hit too low - just go for an ender right there or extend with charge. It's easy to do because you have a lot of time to confirm into it. Not the case with this.

[Kiba]

The low 2CC > IAD j.B > j.C > 2CC is character specific. I tried it on Relius and Hakumen and it worked, so I'm guessing it works on Tager too. It did not work on most of the other characters I tried. Also, I do not believe it is that hard.

Forgive me if this was posted earlier by someone else but I've found something else too.

22B does indeed have more untechable time than 22C, but we can use this to our advantage. In the corner, if you end the combo with a 22C, you can immediately go for a meaty unblockable afterwards and it will hit the opponent if they decide to immediately neutral tech. Of course this also makes it easier for you to OTG the opponent with a 2B if they opt to try to delay their tech. This is less effective with 22B of course because the untechable time is longer, so you can use that time to get a little more charge, plan further pressure etc. I'll add this to the unblockable setups compilation. 22A has the same untechable time as 22B but is not recommended as the recovery of that special is longer than the other two.

In addition, the j.236D (orb) > j.214D crossup has really bad proration. The most you can do is followup with 6CC > 236C > 214A > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214C > 22B/C. You can opt to do this technique rather than the air combo > j.236D > j.214A (delay hit) > Orb > Unblockable setup, but note that the crossup of course does not work when you're too close to the corner as the orb will go off screen.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Kiba

[Shruikon]

That's interesting about the untechable time. Explains why my timing has been off on meaty unblockables recently. Or I'm just that bad xD

[Kiba]

Heh.

Uh also, the air combo loop into the dash 5CC > 2C > 236C > 22B ender is easier against characters with bigger hitboxes and easier against everyone else when you have them in the corner. For example, I was able to consistently to land the air loop > 5CC > 2C against Jin in the corner, but that was not the case midscreen.

[BatousaiJ]

Ya, I've known about the 22B thing for a long time now.

Interesting find about the 22C into meaty unblockable though, I'll definitely check it out.

[Kiba]

Also one last thing:

This 623C > j.214A(w) > 214D link is Makoto specific. I don't think anyone would use this though because we have better options but I'm just letting you guys know.

Of course, I can not take complete credit for noticing this as Daedron helped with this. So thanks.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Kiba

[Errol]

The low 2CC > IAD j.B > j.C > 2CC is character specific. I tried it on Relius and Hakumen and it worked, so I'm guessing it works on Tager too. It did not work on most of the other characters I tried. Also, I do not believe it is that hard.

2CC or 2C?

[pktazn]

Is there a difference in untechable time for unblockable 22D in the corner if they wallbound and hit the floor or if they wallbound then you hit them before they touch the ground?

EDIT: For the reason why I'm asking, it's for the sake of knowing haha. It's a question that popped into my head while reading the posts here and I've tried testing it out but I don't have the combo prowess that most here do.

Edited March 15, 2012 by pktazn

[Errol]

I don't understand the question, if you hit them before they touch the ground, the untechable time should be based on whatever you hit with them instead of the 22D..?

[Kiba]

2CC or 2C?

Either.

Is there a difference in untechable time for unblockable 22D in the corner if they wallbound and hit the floor or if they wallbound then you hit them before they touch the ground?

Hitting them would reduce the untechable time for the unblockable 22D. Letting them hit the floor gives you more time to charge for instance. I think I've answered the question correctly?

On a side note you can do this midscreen to corner combo:

Throw > 236C > 214B > 22B > 6C > 22B for 1.9k. Not that much difference in damage w/o the 6C > 22B, but every little helps, and it certainly assists in the heat gain.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Kiba

[pktazn]

Yea I realized as I was going to bed that hitting them right away would result in it being about what you do for untech time instead of it just being about the 22D. Derp derp.

But that does answer my strange question guys so thanks haha~

[Lythium]

So, I guess I'll contribute something for once instead of lurking. I was messing around in training mode, and I came up with this:

midscreen FC 3C > 6CC > 214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B

I don't think it's very good! :V Any thoughts on how it could be improved?

[Kiba]

But that does answer my strange question guys so thanks haha~

No problem. Glad to be of service.

So, I guess I'll contribute something for once instead of lurking. I was messing around in training mode, and I came up with this:

midscreen FC 3C > 6CC > 214D > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B

I don't think it's very good! :V Any thoughts on how it could be improved?

I thought that combo was in the combo compilation but I just checked and it's not. I'll add that. That's the best you can get from a 3C FC midscreen with one stock. Thanks.

[Errol]

FC 6A>5CC>6C>j.236C>dash 5A>5CC>6CC>jc>JCC>j.236a>j.236c>JD