Circuitous Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Allow me to clarify. Continue to discuss AC. Don't continue to act like you understand fundamentally why the netcode is bad, what the netcode even is, or why things are designed the way they are. They're not worthwhile avenues of discussion - nothing you can say will convince the other party that you are right, and vice versa. Neither side has enough evidence to back up their claims.
M.Song Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 About the tierlist, Koichis list is way better, Dogura gets to play only vs few characters and acho sucks hard atm if you compare it to the level of Mikado where Koichi plays. So just ingore doguras list at this point. where are you getting this information that dogura doesn't get to play vs many chars and what are you basing the fact that acho sucks compared to mikado
Yaya Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 About the tierlist, Koichis list is way better, Dogura gets to play only vs few characters and acho sucks hard atm if you compare it to the level of Mikado where Koichi plays. So just ingore doguras list at this point. Kabegiwa, Roz, Kuni, Ruu, I could go on but I think I've gotten the point across that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Sym_ Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Koichi’s list S Kliff Faust Zappa A Millia Chipp Jam Anji Axl I-No B Eddie Potemkin Baiken Johnny Dizzy Slayer A.B.A Order-Sol C Sol Ky May Venom Testament Bridget Robo D Justice Dogura’s list S Faust Chipp Zappa A Millia Baiken Jam Dizzy Slayer B Sol May Eddie Potemkin Axl Johnny I-No Robo Order-Sol Kliff C Ky Anji Venom Testament A.B.A D Bridget Justice I'm shocked to see Venom so low, he looks really good...millia forever A tier, win.
reaVer Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Allow me to clarify. Continue to discuss AC. Don't continue to act like you understand fundamentally why the netcode is bad, what the netcode even is, or why things are designed the way they are. They're not worthwhile avenues of discussion - nothing you can say will convince the other party that you are right, and vice versa. Neither side has enough evidence to back up their claims. And again you delete the post... How do I not know what ArcSys has done when I encountered similar issues with my netcode? All issues reported are things that I've run into with my own netcode before. Some of these issues even occurred with the #R online netcode. I know pretty damn well what their decisions where and what they need to do to fix it.
Circuitous Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 So email them. No point in starting arguments about it here.
reaVer Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 ElvenShadow emailed them, the discussion here is about getting everyone here in line and not send any mixed signals to arcsys when they are reading this, as simple as that really.
Jakestation Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Kabegiwa, Roz, Kuni, Ruu, I could go on but I think I've gotten the point across that you have no idea what you're talking about. Haha, Only Ruu looks pretty good atm, Dogura played very well vs Fab at last weekend. Judging from the videos from last 1.5 months A-Cho is wayyyyy behind Mikado. A-cho players did look a bit better week ago compared to times before that. I can name some mikado players who looks stronger than those atm. Lets start from the top 3, Nage, Inoue (aka kazunoko), Koichi. Then we can start going on, FAB, Teresa, Satou,, Chonari, Kiisha, Fino, Konsome, En, BOB, AGF, Ain, Osaka B, Kishitaka, OSCA, Kazuki, Nakamura, JUN. There is also one may player who seems to be way above achos kedako/efute. Just cant get his name in my head. At the last i dunno where Samitto plays nowdays, he is sometimes at mikado/acho and in some weird arcade. Guess you could put him in top players now matter where he plays. Edit: Also the netplay is very smooth inside scandinavia, games are pretty much lagless. Europe is small enough so pretty much anyone can play against each other with 2-4 bars. Edited December 12, 2012 by Jakestation
ElvenShadow Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 better May than Kedako...? I dunno about that... who?
Silmerion Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Man, I knew I shouldn't have asked about tier lists About the tierlist, Koichis list is way better, Dogura gets to play only vs few characters and acho sucks hard atm if you compare it to the level of Mikado where Koichi plays. So just ingore doguras list at this point. I see three flaws in this logic: 1) Given only that the tier list is listed as their opinion, it doesn't follow that that opinion was based solely upon that player's personal experiences. Dogura could have had long talks with other pros across Japan and Koichi could have formulated it all solo, for all we know, and in that case I think it's trivial whose tier list would be superior. 2) Even if acho players are on average not as good as Mikado players, it doesn't follow that acho players are bad or that information gathered at acho would be less valuable. 3) Even if Dogura's tier list is on average worse than Koichi's, it doesn't follow that Dogura's should be completely discarded. I guess what I'm saying is that whose tier list is better is a pretty pointless debate, given how little we know and how bad we all are at understanding this game. There's not actually a lot of useful information to be gleaned from tier lists anyway.
qwerty Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Tier lists are pretty useful if you ask me. It's one thing to see Kliff and Zappa shit on the entire cast, it's another to have your observations validated.
Silmerion Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 It's tough to keep out confirmation bias, though. Example: Kliff is S-tier in one list and B-tier in another. Person A considers himself a savvy observer and says, "I knew Kliff was S-tier!" And I mean at the end of the day, we're all just going to go home and try to think about our match-ups anyway.
qwerty Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 It's not like a tier list is going to provide you with any kind of insight as to how to improve as a player, but it serves as a method of gauging what changes have occurred within top level play. Especially for those of us who can't just fly to Japan to play at Mikado or A-Cho, it's nice to know what those players think of the game.
Horokei Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Can't say that Mikado has better players than A-cho, but they have more really good players and stream their tournaments. And last Big GGXXAC tournament at Acho ended with Makki OCV over Nage, Satou and Roi Anyway, why you guys even need tier list when you have this
WolfCrimson Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Quick topic-interrupting question: Doesn't the PSN GG port have voice chat?
Skeletal Minion Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Anyway, why you guys even need tier list when you have this Source?
Dream Maker Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Japanese BBS most likely, I saw tables similar to this one several times while reading the character ranking thread. But considering the way it's built and how totally anonymous people can contribute, I think this has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Sarvets <---xbl Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Really Guilty Gear is meant to be played off line really IMO. I just like that fact that I don't have to lug around a PS2 and Arcade Pro 2 now because of they put it in da 3. BB, Persona and AH3 are fine games played online...leave Guilty offline...Hell, most people that play the 3 games I mentioned said Guilty Gear is hard to play anyway...so why bother with noobs and online scrubs...How much is that gonna make the scene or your local scene grow...not much I think the main thing about this thinking is that ALOT of people play online to get familiar with Fighting games. I tottaly agree that GG SHOULD be played offline. Its just sad to me that the netcode is keeping people from playing pretty much at all. I try and play GG daily online only BECAUSE no one wants to play in person around me. I have tons of FG players on my friends list that simply dismiss this game because the netcode is not good. And on top of that just wont buy the game despite my hyping it. And on top of that its kind of hard to blame them. Ill pop in marvel BB persona or sf and have instant access to lobby and ranked games without a problem. It boggles my mind how arcsys games in general have good netcode, but not GG. Which I consider their pinnacle achievement. No slash stages online etc. Such a bummer. How can we fix this? I tried looking for contact info for arcsys but there is none. I mean really I am down to go old school and write letters haha whatever it takes.
Silmerion Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 It's not like a tier list is going to provide you with any kind of insight as to how to improve as a player, but it serves as a method of gauging what changes have occurred within top level play. Especially for those of us who can't just fly to Japan to play at Mikado or A-Cho, it's nice to know what those players think of the game.Er, yeah, that's all I really meant it wasn't useful for. Sorry for not being clear on that.
Star-Demon Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Really Guilty Gear is meant to be played off line really IMO. I just like that fact that I don't have to lug around a PS2 and Arcade Pro 2 now because of they put it in da 3. BB, Persona and AH3 are fine games played online...leave Guilty offline...Hell, most people that play the 3 games I mentioned said Guilty Gear is hard to play anyway...so why bother with noobs and online scrubs...How much is that gonna make the scene or your local scene grow...not much Uhh, Hi. I netplay mostly b/c it costs too damn much to haul my ass into Brooklyn, which is 80 miles from here. My other Island locals are about 50 miles away. I do come out if I can, however. You can say forget the noobs and scrubs but I can tell you that I've personally watched other communities stagnate and slip into irrelevancy because of it. You need fresh blood. YOU NEED IT. Here's a really simple way to gauge it: It's boring enough to watch the same 3 people at a monthly on either coast. Majors are better, but you still know who is going to place where with about 90% accuracy. Especially in 8 to 16 man tourneys.
Jakestation Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 better May than Kedako...? I dunno about that... who? Lark and thats according to acr videos we have seen so far, Kedako is wayyy better in AC.
kazukifafner Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 Probably an odd question but who would you guys consider to be the fundamental opposite of Anji? I've always been something of a character loyalist in fighting games, but I want to get out of that habit; and if I'm going to do it, I might as well get the most out of it.
ElvenShadow Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 Ah ok, I have not played Kedako in ACR yet but I have fought him a lot recently online in regular AC. oh and, though I already mailed them myself, for those of you who want to send email to ASW, this is their email support@arcsy.co.jp
Bonzai Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 Ah ok, I have not played Kedako in ACR yet but I have fought him a lot recently online in regular AC. oh and, though I already mailed them myself, for those of you who want to send email to ASW, this is their email support@arcsy.co.jp Do they read English emails?
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