Jam Questions and Critique Thread

[JamsLegs]

Before I spend sometime on this, does anyone know the properties of the tk flame kick, not iad flame kick? Been wondering (as a crossup)

[St1ckBuG]

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/ggac/data/ac/jam.html

Faster startup and less recovery. Remember: just because your recovery is faster doesn't mean you'll have frame advantage on block. The onyl way to make j214K safe is to space is correctly. It can be used as a crossup, but when used this way it will be unsafe on block: you won't be pushed far enough away.

It's better to use TK Gekirin as a way to punish someone for trying to poke/slide out of the corner.

IMHO, you have much better mixup/crossup options such as IAD Choujin FRC, IAD Gekirin, and IAD Kenroukaku.

[JamsLegs]

aCtually don't understand how iad 236p frc is any different then without the cancel...(tll me so I know lol), Looks completely the same to me from regular lol... Unless it let's you do a quick high before u land.

I don't expect to do the Tk.214k more then once, the 214k is very ambiguous when it is tk'd it does a good job of crossing up, the first tk.214k most likley will catch the opponent off guard... Lol..

1 more thing... c.s, f.s, iad j.h... Is this supposed to connect?

[St1ckBuG]

aCtually don't understand how iad 236p frc is any different then without the cancel...(tll me so I know lol), Looks completely the same to me from regular lol... Unless it let's you do a quick high before u land.

You answered your own question.

I don't expect to do the Tk.214k more then once, the 214k is very ambiguous when it is tk'd it does a good job of crossing up, the first tk.214k most likley will catch the opponent off guard... Lol..

Gimmicks.

1 more thing... c.s, f.s, iad j.h... Is this supposed to connect?

Nope (although I do remember seeing an infinite somewhere, though I think it involved j.P and not j.H). You're better off going into:

f.S > TK Ryuujin

f.S > 2D > 236SK > Ryuujin

f.S > 2D > TK Ryuujin

f.S > 2H > Ryuujin

These are match/spacing dependent.

[Ryzol]

Got a variety of misc. questions. Thanks in advance.

What are some simple tech traps with Jam?

Is there a good tech trap setup from her throw?

If I get a wallbounce from either 236S~S or 236K what are some good follow ups?

If I have a charge card K can I negative edge from 236K~236K?

If I knock someone far away is it faster to run or to use her command dash?

Which of her ground normals has the most range?

[St1ckBuG]

Got a variety of misc. questions. Thanks in advance.

What are some simple tech traps with Jam?

She has quite a few, but since you only want simple ones...

1). After a full wall loop, if the opponent tries to tech out of the corner you can airthrow them for a re-combo.

2). After regular throw you can sj.S > j.H > Choujin (236P). This will set you up pretty good for an air-throw if they decide to tech a little late. You can also do this for after regular air combos as well.

3). After a low j.D > Gekirin (214D) ender you can catch a low air-tech with air-throw. If you end the combo high (you use your double jump) with j.D Gekirin, somtimes they will wait to tech, in which case you'll be able to airthrow them as soon as they tech.

Option Select

Since you don't want to risk wiffing a j.H when going for an air-throw tech-trap (this happens when they tech extremely late or tech before a ground bounce) you can option-select the air-throw. Instead of just jumping at the person and pressing H, press S+H (at the same time). If the tech-trap works you'll get the air-throw, if they tech late you'll get j.S and you'll be able to extentd your combo with a few more hits: JC > j.S > j.H > Ryuujin (236K)... etc.

Is there a good tech trap setup from her throw?

See above.

If I get a wallbounce from either 236S~S or 236K what are some good follow ups?

Force Break Puffball > whatever you want.

If I have a charge card K can I negative edge from 236K~236K?

I don't see why not, but at the same time I don't see the point... that input isn't hard at all.

If I knock someone far away is it faster to run or to use her command dash?

It depends on the distance, but I'm assuming you mean full screen? Running will always be faster unless you do 236S~H FRC. Her slide might move faster than her run, but the recovery on it is horrible.

Which of her ground normals has the most range?

2D, 2K, and f.S.

[Ryzol]

If I have the Ryuujin card, what is the easiest or safest way to try and land it?

[Tilde~]

Easiest way to combo into charged Ryuujin IMO is 5HS (3 hits) xx 236S~K xx 236K. You can hit-confirm and combo into 5HS from a lot of different things, including 6P, 5K c.S, etc.

You're gonna want to learn the other ways to combo into it though (most notably f.S tk.236K and 2D xx 236S~K xx 236K) since it's a fairly important part of her game, but if you're trying to get comfortable with comboing off charged Ryuujin then the above combo is probably the easiest way to get the ball rolling.

[Ryzol]

Thanks for the info.

How do I get in on people? It seems that every character has more range than Jam. I kinda get in by timing a FB puffball through their attacks, but it's not reliable. Other times I try to IAD, but I get punished for it a lot. I have the most trouble getting in against rushdown characters like Slayer and Sol, because they have good options up close. So, when I'm halfway to Jam's optimal range I'm already in their killzone. At least zoners lose options as Jam gets closer, but Slayer gains options!

I really don't know what to do. I end up blocking a lot until they do something stupid, but I know that won't work against better people, and it doesn't really work against the crappy people I play with (not that I'm any good).

Also, what's the first wall loop I should learn?

[St1ckBuG]

Against Slayer learn to react to: command throw, regular throw, and 6K mixups. Get used to blocking and try not to approach from the air a lot. Learn to parry. 5K and f.S are both good pokes in this matchup. I dunno what else to say other than this matchup sucks. Don't get hit.

Against Sol learn to parry: you can parry Bandit Revolver and Bandit Bringer on reaction. 6P beats Riot Stomp clean. His sword doesn't extend his hitbox, so his 2S will shut down your ground game and his 2D will go under puffball, so you have to feel him out and react to his offense. 2H is an OK anti-air against his j.H. His 5K will beat all of your air normals clean so try to not jump at him too much. Just wait for him to use an unsafe move and punish him hard for it. Also learn his command throw mixups and adjust to them.

As far as wall loops go, you have to feel them out because you're going to have different starters at different heights, but if I wanted someone to learn the loop I would say learn the loop off of a FB puff ball near the corner. Practice the loop on the characters you play against the most to get used to their hitbox and gravity.

[Ryzol]

Thanks a lot.

His sword doesn't extend his hitbox.

Who else has weapons that don't extend their hitboxes?

What are bad habits to avoid doing with Jam? Both execution and strategy mistakes. I only play with scrubs so I don't have anyone to tell me I'm doing it wrong.

What types of moves should I try and parry, and when should I block instead (assuming the move can be blocked high)? Can you parry crossups?

[Ryzol]

How do you do 2P > 6P without getting 236P?

[St1ckBuG]

Thanks a lot.

Who else has weapons that don't extend their hitboxes?

What are bad habits to avoid doing with Jam? Both execution and strategy mistakes. I only play with scrubs so I don't have anyone to tell me I'm doing it wrong.

What types of moves should I try and parry, and when should I block instead (assuming the move can be blocked high)? Can you parry crossups?

Just because a character has a weapon (almost everyone in the cast) doesn't mean all of their moves won't have thier hitbox extended due to the weapon. There are only a few matchups where you can actually take advantage of the hitbox being extended... with almost every matchup you have to always be cautious of their reach being better than yours.

Bad habits: blowing your meter as soon as you get it. Spamming puffball(s). Guessing parry on wake-up to much.

Note - Jam is scary with 25% meter and a Ryuujin card. Hit confirm into your combos first... don't just midlessly throw away cards and meter. Hit-confirm then make it hurt.

What to parry: tell me what characters you play against and I'll try and help you. Most of the time you want to parry obvious jump-ins/overheads/mids. Knowing your opponents options during a blockstring will help you find unsafe/parry-able things.

How do you do 2P > 6P without getting 236P?

1P > 6P

[Ryzol]

Thanks a lot.

What to parry: tell me what characters you play against and I'll try and help you. Most of the time you want to parry obvious jump-ins/overheads/mids. Knowing your opponents options during a blockstring will help you find unsafe/parry-able things.

I thought you couldn't parry during a blockstring, because you had to start from neutral? Also, is parrying better than instablock?

I play against Ky, Testament, Slayer, and Potemkin the most.

[St1ckBuG]

I'm gonna make a video for you, but don't expect it until next week.

[notsogos]

against slayer-

use more 2p, c.s, f.s, maxrange/meaty/early 2d

parry is good but don't be overly parry-happy -- youre going to die

he doesnt really have to approach you and approaching him as jam is pretty tough so just keep controlling as much space as you can while moving forward. push him into the corner and make it count

DO NOT do random puffballs from any range, slayer 6p/2h/bbu/dot will ch for looooots of damage

slayer 5p and 2s beat pretty much everything jam can do, so dont approach from air

listen to stickbug because he works so hard against slayer and it definitely shows every time but...well i get to do whatever the fuck i want <3

[Amadeus46Art]

I know this might be closer to a general "guilty gear mechanics" question, but how the hell do I link j.H x 3 into j.S in Jam's dust combo? Most of the time I just hold 8 or 9 after my 5D, then mash H until I get the three hits. Every once in a while I seem to be able to get the j.S but a majority of the time it just doesn't come out. So I know it's there I just can't get it consistent.

[ryokoalways]

I'd actually suggest you to just do her ID. It's one of the easiest ones out there. Unless my memory fails me, I'm pretty sure the damage is superior regardless of location on the screen.

Sorry I cannot answer your question as I have not done standard dust combo in forever.

[Star-Demon]

Having a hard time finding good Jam match videos to learn from. I've managed to learn a lot just from watching Nerina when it comes to Baiken but I don't have anyone for Jam - any reccomendations?

[Amadeus46Art]

Star-Demon: KA2, LOX, and Mike are all good Jam players. Kaqn played her for a while too, but I dunno if he still does. Those 4 are just off the top of my head, someone else might be able to direct you to more.

Also, I want to leave a link here for my betters to scrutinize and help me edit. I've been working on a "Basic Jam Guide" using a lot of the information I've gathered from Dustloop and from what I've learned myself as I got better at playing. I don't want to say this guide is perfect, so that's why I'm gonna hope some of you here will look over it and note any changes or additions you see fit:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fd-fLc_WUviEoRVTy6XjhyD-8-lsUnEdluZpzSMVzGU/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CL7hk_MD

I still need to add a credits section for this, but shoutouts to FlashMetroid and the Dustloop community for even getting the information in the first place, and shoutouts to St1ckBuG to looking over it once and editing it already.

[Star-Demon]

Cool - Thanks. I'll check it out. If Kaqn's as good at Jam as he is at Ragna then I might really develop a good Rush game with Jam. Locals are pretty scared of/Salty for my Jam right now.

[Goldenrody]

Kaqn hasn't been dominant with Jam(and GG in general) since the end of #R.

There are a lot of strong Jams that show up frequently in videos though. In no particular order:

mike/Kaleido Star

KA2

Karun かるん

LOX

Kazu かず

Teresa てれさ

Muri Shinjuu 無理心中

Jajamaru じゃじゃ丸

Goro ごろー

[Star-Demon]

Back again - Recently having a hard time getting in and getting a good hit from being blocked. Either I roll someone in a round, or I'm having a hard time making contact or defending in order to fight back.

I've looked over the Jam basics, but the guide is really vague and It's left me "figuring it out". It really should be updated and edited for clarity and detail.

[Amadeus46Art]

I'll try to answer to the best of my ability, but I'm still working on that problem myself.

Learn your 5K (+1SD) and 2S (+0SD) ranges, those are strong and fast pokes. Your longest range pokes are f.S (-1) and 2D (-6) but you're gonna have to jump cancel the 2D to make it safe. There are gonna be some characters you're just going to spend half the round just trying to get in on them, you just have to keep your cool and watch for openings. Make sure you learn your matchup specific stuff too, against some characters like Ky or Venom, Jam's 6P can go through some of their farthest pokes and land a counterhit.

As for mixup and blockstrings, master your JC IAD kicks, and 236P FRC. IAD623K is a very good crossup, while IAD214K can be made safe if you position it right and hits high. IAD236P is kinda gimmicky but if you can crossup the opponent with it you can hit them with a low when you land. Don't be afraid to 5D every once in a while, it's only -2 on block and is pretty hard to see coming. Also, frametraps, frametraps, frametraps. Scare them into blocking, tick throw every here and there, and from there it's all about hitconfirming.

[Star-Demon]

What is the 2D FRC for?

I don't really consider 2D "unsafe", nor do I know what can come after a FRCed 2D.

It looks pretty when I spam it four times, though.