Jam Questions and Critique Thread

[Da'Jam]

Q: About TK Ryuujin I'm looking at my inputs in the Training mode and they are 2369K but it won't combo after f. Slash. I managed to do it a couple times by jump installing it which is how i do Slayer's 5K > Mappa [K] (which seems a hella lot easier than this for some reason) but does it actually work with that input? Edit: Found out it's just a link and not a cancel, and I have to delay the K cuz the jump takes frames to occur . Didn't take that into account.

[atryu]

Q: About TK Ryuujin I'm looking at my inputs in the Training mode and they are 2369K but it won't combo after f. Slash. I managed to do it a couple times by jump installing it which is how i do Slayer's 5K > Mappa [K] (which seems a hella lot easier than this for some reason) but does it actually work with that input?

Like I have already said in the "TK Ryuujin thread", yes, you can "kind of" JI it!

I do FS(JI), 236+K... it's like S8236+K in one motion.

[Da'Jam]

OK, I lied. I thought I'd got it down through jump install but i find the technique far more troublesome than tiger kneeing it with jam. However, I can't seem to just go 2369K if I want it to connect there seems to be a timing issue. Could someone explain exactly how the f. Slash to TK Ryuujin ? JI'ing it can result in it being funkily high if you mess up the timing at all so i'd rather just learn to do it the "right" way. I was thinking it was a link cuz i was able to do it sometimes but now i'm thinking i was just accidently doing it right . Is there a delay from 9 to K or what?

[FlashMetroid]

well I believe I made a basics thread and its in there check it out sometime it has the basic questions answered and no it is not a link a link is when you completely recover from a move and then combo in another....your jcing fS...

[Hintalove]

The part that is tricky is during f.s you go into hitstop, which is not jump cancelable. To properly get a tked ryujin out of and grounded move, the only thing you really have to know is how long it takes Jam to go from the point that she hits the opponent to the point that she is actually jumping. Basically, it is a link in a sense, not the general sense, but more like slayer 2k > 2h. You want to ryuujin on the first possible jumping frame, and the window is rather small. I honestly don't use the old launcher much because my consistancy is much higher with the splits kick launcher and I learned Jam in AC.

[ryokoalways]

You still need tk for cross up situations where the slide kick won't land because the opponent is too far. For those cross up, it usually goes as jh > fs > tk kick.

[FlashMetroid]

The part that is tricky is during f.s you go into hitstop, which is not jump cancelable. To properly get a tked ryujin out of and grounded move, the only thing you really have to know is how long it takes Jam to go from the point that she hits the opponent to the point that she is actually jumping. Basically, it is a link in a sense, not the general sense, but more like slayer 2k > 2h. You want to ryuujin on the first possible jumping frame, and the window is rather small.

I honestly don't use the old launcher much because my consistancy is much higher with the splits kick launcher and I learned Jam in AC.

you make it sound so complicated when it really isnt its not a link its a cancel...you hit fS and once you see it hit you do 2369K theres nothing else to it you literally just do it theres no secret to it

TK ryuujin is way better becuase it involves less hits(usually 1-2 but still damage is damage) and it takes them to same place

[ryokoalways]

The hits actually doesn't matter much in this case, because depending on if you tk or slide kick, the combo that follows is different, of which the damage is completely tension dependent. In any case, learn both, and use them for whichever situation.

[FlashMetroid]

Actually the hits do matter since the more hits the more scaling and the combo is pretty much the same in almost every situation except from wall to wall where you would add an extra 236s, hs and then the combo is the same.....

[ryokoalways]

I use different combos for different distance from wall/height of Jam during fly launcher. It can go anything from having to use FB to continue, use 236s-h, whiff 6h into followup, basic 5s 2h, etc. Sometimes it's not for max damage, rather than for set up of knockdown and corner space cross ups. Reason I said the extra hits isn't too big of an issue is because I try to hold off using FB in a combo till at least half way so I can have more control over set ups with available tension. It's definitely less damage though, just a simple choice that has to be made.

[Da'Jam]

you make it sound so complicated when it really isnt its not a link its a cancel...you hit fS and once you see it hit you do 2369K theres nothing else to it you literally just do it theres no secret to it

TK ryuujin is way better becuase it involves less hits(usually 1-2 but still damage is damage) and it takes them to same place

Er...than the timing is natural to you cuz I assure you that if you do TK motion after hitconfirming the hit it will not come out consistantly. It has some sort of timing. On stick I find my TK's are a lot slower normally and I've been playing this on pad cuz IAD'ing is sooooo much easier on pad to me. Hell I find stick to be slower for everything except half/full circles. Jam doesn't require a large number of FRC/RC's so really pad doesn't have much of a disadvantage for her imo.

Hinta: So you just have to time the 2369K so that you complete the input during the JC'able portion of f. Slash? Do I need to delay the input between 9 and K at all? Basically I'm asking i guess if a jump occurs instantly out of a JC'able move or does it take frames like a normal jump?

Makes sense as it took me awhile to get used to JC'ing far slash into an IAD crossup because if you do the input to fast after the f. Slash you won't get the air dash and just get a normal jump because the second dash input was inputted before you were actually in the air.

[Hintalove]

You just need to get a feel for when she is able to jump after the slash/what ever jcable move youre using. Input method doesn:t really matter due to the small window of time the combo takes place in, but I generally do it just by hitting slash, and then starting my 2368k so that Im hitting 8k right when the hitstop is over. I know my technical description might not appeal to veteren Jams/gg players, but I dont think a lot of new players understand how hitstop affects jcable moves and plays into combos. Just like DaJam said, doing 2d/s into iad 214k or dp feels much stranger than just doing iad 214k or dp. On an unrelated note, Im kinda working on some new wierd oki setups for when I have a kd and already have a charge. Generally(unless you end up very far away) canceling 2d into 236s>p will slide you to the other side of your opponent and leave you with enough time to whiff what ever you want(6h/j2k) and then either go for a real meaty, throw, block, do what ever it is you want to do, and of course you can slide for a few more frames and turn the whiffed move into a meaty. Im playing around mostly with this and canceling 2ds into choujin for simple crossup safe jumpins. I guess the last really wierd thing I found on accedent is that you can meaty the third hit of 5h and it goes under the vast majority of dps :O I do generic corner oki in the corner, this is mainly for midscreen.

[Kicks]

You just need to get a feel for when she is able to jump after the slash/what ever jcable move youre using. Input method doesn:t really matter due to the small window of time the combo takes place in, but I generally do it just by hitting slash, and then starting my 2368k so that Im hitting 8k right when the hitstop is over. I know my technical description might not appeal to veteren Jams/gg players, but I dont think a lot of new players understand how hitstop affects jcable moves and plays into combos. Just like DaJam said, doing 2d/s into iad 214k or dp feels much stranger than just doing iad 214k or dp.

On an unrelated note, Im kinda working on some new wierd oki setups for when I have a kd and already have a charge. Generally(unless you end up very far away) canceling 2d into 236s>p will slide you to the other side of your opponent and leave you with enough time to whiff what ever you want(6h/j2k) and then either go for a real meaty, throw, block, do what ever it is you want to do, and of course you can slide for a few more frames and turn the whiffed move into a meaty. Im playing around mostly with this and canceling 2ds into choujin for simple crossup safe jumpins. I guess the last really wierd thing I found on accedent is that you can meaty the third hit of 5h and it goes under the vast majority of dps :O I do generic corner oki in the corner, this is mainly for midscreen.

DUDE! I came here to post that, I interrupted some Starship on wakeup last night with 5HS. It was dope! I think because she moves slightly forward, so the invincibility was gone by the time the third one came out. It's pretty sweet... I'll have to work on it some more.

My other reason to come here was to ask about 236S~S. What is a good normal to use as to keep the frames tight/window small enough to get some counter hits? I've been using 5HS>236S~S, but last night Johnny busted my lip open with a CH 2HS in between. I was also gonna try 6K because the frames are pretty good with it. I was gonna try 2HS because the push back might let me hit the 236S~S on the outer edge of the sprite which is very nice. Perhaps I could try 5HS f.S but then my blockstun goes down. I know I can use 236S~K, but it's lots less safe. My other intention is to find the best ways to discourage jumping during my block strings. If you have any info on that note, I'd be happy to hear that as well.

Thanks everyone, my posts have been answered quickly with good info everyday!

PS

My method for f.S Dragon Kick cancel...

It may not be the best, but might work for someone.

If you do f.S and immediately hit 8 then go neutral(5), she'll jump cancel even if you input the 8 way early. So I do that, then as soon as I see her f.S animation end and begin the jump--> 236K.

[ryokoalways]

There isn't any point to 236ss other than to gain tension and conditioning for FB really. It's not really possible to frame trap something that slow.

[atryu]

Er...than the timing is natural to you cuz I assure you that if you do TK motion after hitconfirming the hit it will not come out consistantly. It has some sort of timing.

Sure it has... I was never (or a very few times) able to pulled it out outside of training mode!

It's not a normal cancel.. it's the weirdest timing, and when I got it right, it tends to confuse my timing for regular cancels the rest of the round.

PS

My method for f.S Dragon Kick cancel...

It may not be the best, but might work for someone.

If you do f.S and immediately hit 8 then go neutral(5), she'll jump cancel even if you input the 8 way early. So I do that, then as soon as I see her f.S animation end and begin the jump--> 236K.

QFT! ...I use exactly the same method! I have nigh 100% accuracy doing it so, and I keep my consistency for other comboes involving cancels.

[JustAPrinny]

That's how I TK Axl Bomber!

[Sir Phobos]

There isn't any point to 236ss other than to gain tension and conditioning for FB really. It's not really possible to frame trap something that slow.

I think 236S-S isn't THAT useless. Sure, it's good for building tension, but if you get a CH 236S-S near the corner, you get a free 6H loop plus some FB Puffballs if you have tension, and you can end with a charged kick for the knockdown. I find that if I land a CH 236S-S near the corner against most characters, and I get a full combo afterward, one more combo is usually all it takes to dizzy them.

You can use it from further away if you're afraid of getting poked out of it. Try to aim it so that the tip of the Puffball would hit the tip of one of their pokes, so Jam's vulnerable hitbox might be out of reach.

[Da'Jam]

Jap players tag it on at the end of strings after 2D pretty often because most of the time you can max range it at the end of the string making it difficult to punish. If you get the counter-hit you can be pretty far from the corner and still follow it up with a wall combo if you have 25% Tension. As long as you don't do it every time it's a really solid move at the end of strings but you gotta make sure you don't dash to close to them so it's easy to get punished. Kinda like sweep into 236S-K try to do the S the moment the dash begins so you don't really move. Or at least that's what i see when i watch vids. Low-Risk High reward is where it is at. Does it have to much use not outside of trying to max range it when people are fairy'ing around but in my experience that doesn't happen that often in GG.

[atryu]

Jap players tag it on at the end of strings after 2D pretty often because most of the time you can max range it at the end of the string making it difficult to punish.

Yeah... I use it at the end of pressure strings (opponent blocking) to bait a punishment hit... actually, after 236+S->S, jam is at a perfect distance for a 2S counter -> stagger!

basically, what I do:

string, 236+S, S -> stick immediately in neutral position after the first "S" (to get the few necessary neutral frames before parry) -> 46 -> 2S

doing so, if the opponent tries to punish with a high hit, it will result in a parry, and if he goes for low, 2S counter hit -> stagger -> rape his sorry ass with your best combo!

Works magnificiently on Sol / order Sol! ..they always take the bait at least once per match!

Sols will tend to try to punish with a 5S or a 6HS and get pwned...

However, I don't recommend this phase on Testa, Eddie, and the "look at me! I have a projectile overdrive!" chars when they have tension.

[Da'Jam]

Ya don't do it in the Slayer matchup unless you want to eat a nice 50%+ combo as well.

[F-12]

How in heck do you do her Hokuto Hyakuretsu-ken super move?

[Hintalove]

This is the part where I ask you if you are for serious.

[atryu]

Ya don't do it in the Slayer matchup unless you want to eat a nice 50%+ combo as well.

indeed...

I usually give up on puff-balls of any kind against Slayer.

just concentrate on parry... ( and 632146+S overdrive as soon as you see him move is good to finish him up too! ^^ )

[F-12]

This is the part where I ask you if you are for serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QXSsSJFp5c

^I'm talking about this

[Hintalove]

Basically, the only way to do that super is to beat me at Puyo Puyo Fever, and if you don't even know about that... there is no hope.