[AC+R] Venom Discussion Thread

[KJunk]

Actually it may be perfectly acceptable for corner pressure after a knockdown. Overdrives don't slow your meter gain like FRCs and Force Breaks. If you can space out your pressure to use each charged ball individually while throwing normals, stinger aims, and even summoning more balls, we should be able to get it meter positive while locking someone down for a long time.

Here's an example - after a 2D or 6H knockdown in the corner, cancel into a S Tactical Arch.

Then as they're standing, 2S the bottom right charged S ball, and cancel the 2S into a S Carcass Ride. It won't hit any balls.

Next, 2S or far slash and cancel into a S Stinger Aim. This will carry just the bottom left charged H Ball.

You'll have time then to throw another normal and cancel into a ball summon, or just do a raw ball summon. At this point, you've used up your S and H Charged balls. This means we can use those ball summons without losing any potential balls. I like the H ball summon here because it will reorient your charged balls to be in a vertical line with 2 at the bottom and one at the very top, letting you continue to space out your pressure.

Canceling a normal into a safe teleport would turn into a lot of pressure/meter build, maybe a mix-up opportunity.

There's a lot of potential there. The fact that charged balls stay out for like 10 seconds now really helps something like this become doable.

[KJunk]

One more silly thing for the night:

From full screen against a standing opponent, summon a P ball, then summon a S ball, then immediately FB Stinger Aim. Immediately after that, H Ball summon. Magic will happen.

You can also H Stinger Aim right after the H Ball Summon to turn it into a 200 damage 5 hit combo from full screen.

Actually the smart thing to do is just skip the H Stinger Aim and dash in for an actual combo. You have time to do it

[tataki]

Today I discovered something pretty crazy with Venom but I have to wait for my friend to bring back the capture card.

[tataki]

I have some more crazy ideas to test but I'm so tired... Will try them tomorrow. Kinda feel like compiling all the cool stuff we find into one music video.

[DaiAndOh]

So I found what may be a strong damage starter in the corner.

After a starter (such as throw or j.236D, 6P) 421P~D, 28HS. It's a bit tight, and I'm not sure of the optimal followup. In addition, it has a nice side effect in that if you're too late on the 28HS, gives you a strong meaty setup.

[Hugotakon]

I´m trying to deduce the ball formation that fino uses in their pressure, he uses c.S(3)>6P>214D>f.S>421HS>214D, then he run and hit the charged ball with 2K summon maybe a S ball hit it with f.S then do a stinger aim that hit the ball that is behind venom, I know that´s not the correct notaction combo because my Stinger doesn hit that ball because is too low, someone could help me please? 

 

Also I´m Having trouble doing the 214H>214S>2S>214S>5S>stinger aim, the timing of the charge for my SA seem not to be enough .

[DaiAndOh]

Could you link me a video?

Also regarding the second, you're holding back from the second 214s all the way through right?

[Hugotakon]

Here is it, minute 2:13 against Johnny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHoSe4lnkuU

 

He starts with the 6A counter.

 

Second question, yes I try to do 214S>1S>Stinger it wont come out, but if I do 214S>4S> Stinger, it works good, something could changed on +R?

[DaiAndOh]

Yeah the combo you posted is wrong, here is the combo:

(AA) 6P, (ball hit), c.S(1), 6k, 214HS~D, f.S, 421D, 214HS. Then after dashing with the 2K as you said, he does 214S, 2S, S Stinger. If you're still having trouble despite doing it correctly, try adjusting your spacing a bit on where you end up after dashing 2K.

Secon question, nothing changed I'm 95% sure, sounds like you're returning to neutral briefly or doing something else sloppily that's messing up the charge input.

[Hugotakon]

Thanks, yesterday I was practicing and I found this works too:

 

6P, c.s(1), 6K, 214D, f.S, 421P, 214H, run and hit charged ball w 2K, 214S, 2S or 5s, SA,  

 

You need kick the charged ball on ground so the blockstun let u summon the 214S ball on time to follow the pessure.

 

Gonna need check my inputs, thanks Dai!

[DaiAndOh]

You mean 214HS~D after the 6K right? Also 421P, 214HS? That wouldn't put a ball in a place to be hit by 2K?

[Kirnupiima]

I've practiced Venom for about a month now. I'm a relatively new player of ~8 months so it's not been too easy but I'm starting to manage!

 

I like it when I get to do many small decisions in a match instead of scoring 3 or so big combos. The dubious curve loops are something I can't do yet and the charge inputs aren't that consistent but they'll come eventually for sure. First get used to the simple things and build from there! I've struck fear to my opponents a few times so that's a really good sign.

[DubiousCurvLoop]

Welcome to +R Venom!  It's nice to see there's someone still sticking with the man.  This is his toughest version  yet to win with, so let us know if you have any questions.

[DaiAndOh]

I'd trust this guy, he's good at the loop he named himself after it.

When you say strike fear, what do you mean with? Basic okizeme? Pressure? Zoning?

[Kirnupiima]

They mostly curse the balls. Balls just being there are so good. You don't even have to activate them after summoning.

 

".....The pressure is real" was my favourite thing to hear the other day while keeping the opponent in the corner. I love it.

[DaiAndOh]

The threat of balls keeps Venom strong yeah. But when people start to wise up, it gets harder and harder to summon safely. They might overthinking things in the end.

The beauty of FGs though is that when they learn how to get around it, it forces you to figure out solutions, and everyone's getting better :D

[Kirnupiima]

Yeah, I can see them adapting pretty quickly. I try to learn some new tricks little by little. Now I'm practicing some basic combos to deal some more damage. Dubious loop in the corner is very tight, I should save that a bit later. For now some solid midscreen stuff into oki it is. Thanks for the support and tips!

[DaiAndOh]

How are you going into DBC Loop? It's not really possible without meter off of 5hs ground hit, but should be no problem with a little practice off of throw, air hit 6p, 6k ground bounce, etc.

[Kirnupiima]

I've practiced it off of c.S(3) 6K Dubious. The sweet spot for the 2S is still off. The Dubious Curve after that is a normal gatling, right, so should be a no-brainer. It'll come!

[Kirnupiima]

The dubious loop got way easier when a friend reminded me that I can buffer the 4 on dubious curve before the 2S. Would not have thought it myself lol. Also, built a hitbox controller so there's been a slight delay in adapting and learning.

 

With the new controller I still have a hard time TKing mad struggle so the mixup is lacking quite a bit. I try to compensate it by IAD jump-ins but most of the time opponents just need to block low to not get hit. I have made some progress too but not as quickly as one would hope of course.

 

BlackSnake's UFGT games were very good and they gave lots of ideas! He also had a nice c.S anti-air aerial combo which led into corner carry c.S. in a single combo. Should try to copy that.

[DaiAndOh]

Huh that's a good point about the basic loop.....I never even bothered with that lol.

The classic 2in1.

TKing mad struggle is pretty essential overall, but it's not just for mixup. Advantage, pressure, and fills the guard gauge too!

[DaiAndOh]

Did a significant update to the Venom AC+R wiki, pre-Xrd. Feel free to ask, discuss, or correct.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Venom_(GGACR)