Tiger knee

[rtl42]

if you're trying to tkEnsenga off a JCable move, remember there is no jump startup when canceling into a jump

wait, what? this sounds very wrong, unless you meant something not-so-obvious by "jump startup".

[4r5]

well, when I record myself doing Johnny's overdrive as a 360, from a standing position, then play it back during Johnny's forward dash, I get a sj.HS instead of an OD. so that lead me to believe that there must not be any jump startup when canceling into jumps. but maybe it was too quick of me to assume the same thing for everything else? But when I stopped accounting for jump startup during stuff like Slayer's 5K>Mappa and Dizzy's 2D>IceSpike I started to become a lot more consistent with them.

[Shazay]

With Sol (tk vv) I do 9236 and with Slayer (mappa) I do 2369.

[rtl42]

well,

when I record myself doing Johnny's overdrive as a 360, from a standing position, then play it back during Johnny's forward dash, I get a sj.HS instead of an OD. so that lead me to believe that there must not be any jump startup when canceling into jumps.

but maybe it was too quick of me to assume the same thing for everything else?

But when I stopped accounting for jump startup during stuff like Slayer's 5K>Mappa and Dizzy's 2D>IceSpike I started to become a lot more consistent with them.

the thing is, in this case, you're cancelling your jump start-up with a ground special/overdrive, so of course it should feel like there's no jump start-up.

however, in general, that's not true: if you do a ground normal that's jump cancelled into an air normal/special, you'll go through the full jump start-up time, plus one frame. this one frame is when the "engine"/game checks to see if you have any horizontal inertia, and if you do, kills it.

(if that doesn't make sense, refer to the "normal jump cancelling" section in the gameplay guide. what's written in there, occurs for a double-jump cancel, but what i'm talking about is a jump cancel from the ground. hence, since there are no ground-air gatlings, you can't get rid of this frame the way you can if it's during a double-jump cancel.)

[4r5]

I think you might of missed my point. Or maybe I missed your's? I do Johnny's OD as 632147896HS I get it, no problem. I don't jump because there's jump startup and I'm canceling it before the startup completes. I record it into memory. Now I do Johnny's 6HS and hit playback, i get a super jump backwards. If there was jumpstart (or jumpstartup +1) I should still be getting my OD instead of a backwards super jump. So I'm thinking there is less, or no, jump startup when you are canceling into a jump. Except for maybe that 1 frame check for inertia. Which is why something like K>Mappa's up and button press feel like they have to be at the exact same time compared to when you just do a standalone tkMappa.

[Digital Watches]

Eh, I don't think it gets rid of jump startup. Recording could have caused any number of problems. Another possibility is that superjumping is different in terms of startup from normal jumping, and that the hitstop caused the game to see your input as a superjump rather than a normal jump. Depending on how quick the input was, maybe the down input and the up input were far enough apart under normal circumstances to not be a superjump, but counted as being inputted faster because the game considered you to have buffered them into the hitstop caused by the move you did beforehand. Does anyone know how fast superjumps start up?

[4r5]

I also get the same results when I do the 360 OD during Jo's forward dash, which has no hitstop. I just mention 6HS cause it's easier to test. I also agree that the hitstop might of spoiled the results. but what's wrong with the record function?

[Digital Watches]

Oh, I typed that wrong (It sounded right in my head!). I meant to say "Even with recording, hitstop could have caused any number of problems." Also, maybe you can jump out of Johnny's dash before you can OD out of it? Maybe you can jump at the same time as you can FD, but the OD can't be done until the end of the dash, or something.

[4r5]

Yes, before the 11th frame, Johnny's dash is only jump-cancelable. After that, it's all free game. I've been trying to get an OD (or anything else) out sooner then the 11th frame, by doing the same thing that Slayer does to 'special-cancel' his 5K. I've tried 632147896HS, 6321476HS, and 6321486HS but all result in jump-canceling the dash. The only one I've been able to get to work is 6321469HS and the 9 and HS need to absolutely be simultaneous. Or, atleast that's what I remember the 9 and HS having to be, months ago when I was trying to accomplish this. I only got it twice back then, so maybe my memory is fuzzy.

[Hellmonkey]

I don't think it's possible to cancel johnny's dash-jump to ground specials. Obvious example of this is do 412369H. It should cancel to coin, but obviously while dashing cancels to instant ensenga. (41236569 for ease)

[Hellmonkey]

Yet another example, 6462147S would give transport if you could cancel the startup of dash-jump to ground specials, but gives air killer joker instead

[reaVer]

Isn't the problem here the fact you leave the ground instantly rather than after a certain while? So if you'd do 23669H you might get coin? EDIT: Nope, seems not at least I got a way to do a guaranteed ensigna though without having to worry about coins coming out XD.

[Hellmonkey]

Oh, duh. Johnny is airborne during his dash. Jump cancelling out of it leaves him in airborne state which cannot be cancelled into ground anything. (the only way to cancel to ground moves from the air is when your character is considered on the ground- by hitting them immediately before landing or during jumping startup) So jump cancelling, even out of Johnny's dash, does not get rid of jump startup. You can tell because you can still cancel directly out of the startup frames to get superjumps without the super-jump animation. You just can't cancel into ground moves because he's considered off the ground to begin with. This is what allows Slayer's dash to cancel to ground specials and Johnny's not to- (and for proof) you can airthrow Johnny's dash, you can ground throw Slayer's.

[4r5]

Oh, duh. Johnny is airborne during his dash.

:slaps head:

that time i got the od to come out mid-dash must of been a dream :sad:

atleast my kara-ensenga is real

4123669HS

[YanisDLooper]

Since Johnny's dash makes you airborne, do you even need to input the 9? For a low TK Ensenge couldn't you just 412366HS? If this could work you could do a low TK KJ with 662314S.

[Hellmonkey]

You are airborne but can't cancel to anything but jump or FD (slashback too?), so yes you would need to input 9 to TK.

[Mitsurugi]

:slaps head:

that time i got the od to come out mid-dash must of been a dream :sad:

Haha, I've been 4rFooled, no wonder I couldn't perform the magical dash > OD no matter how long I tried !

Nonetheless, seeing how confident you were back when we discussed about it, I thought you could perform it consistently...

[reaVer]

Someone should put this in the Johnny forums XD Especially about the part how you're jump canceling an airborne dash into a jump and thus cannot get ground moves:P

[Coinage]

I would say since im a noob still, to practice the TK with testament bad land loop. 21478P or DQBU-P and loop it.

[Blade]

Is it me or is TK Chemical Love Easier to control with (6321469+K) than (632147896+K) on pad? Also, for TK Dp motions...I saw the 360 thing... I do 62369+any for myself...

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

I will never get people who don't just do 6321473 for TK DPs. It's just so easy to do, and it does them really low to the ground.

[Zaido]

i think its a different story for Pad vs Stick? i ono.. i can't get my thumb a full circle -_-...

[Teyah]

I will never get people who don't just do 6321473 for TK DPs. It's just so easy to do, and it does them really low to the ground.

That will frequently get you a superjump, and for some characters like Baiken, you also want to be able to double jump after recovering from a whiffed/blocked/RCed TK623. But since TKYZS is now very easy to do via 6239S thanks to developer assist from Slash onwards, it's sort of a moot point. I do recall a few players using the 6321473S motion during the #Reload days, though.

[reaVer]

I will never get people who don't just do 6321473 for TK DPs. It's just so easy to do, and it does them really low to the ground.

Because if you're fast enough you're getting a DP really low by doing 6923 or 62369. And those 2 are a lot less likely to fail or whiff since you're jumping forward rather than backwards. Hmmm, thinking about the buffer, I should try 923...

[Hellmonkey]

Although even in AC you want to use 6321473 for Youzansen often because it is by far the easiest motion and it will get rid of forward momentum which can make connecting the RC tatami easier. Are there any other TK DPs you would care about superjumping for?