[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[JayT]

Is this a good character for beginners? I kind of like her playstyle but I don't think I would be able to consistently do the SMP loops.

[The_Crazyasian]

Pro strats, Silence = cannot burst. We need to find ways to force silence early in a SMP combo for that unburstable 8K DMG,

Tried playing around with this idea.

5AA > 5B > 2C > mudo > D megido > 2A+B > D megido hits > [2]C > 5C > 236236A > OMB > 66 > SMPx10 > 236A~D.

Unfortunately, the most reps out of the SMP I could get were 6-7 before silence wore off so it was around 6.2-6.6k. Also this requires 100 meter and a burst so its kinda impractical but if it'll win you the match then w/e. Thing is people will probably burst way sooner then the silence unless they know you tend to drop the combo.

Did another combo where the SMP would be less obvious.

5AA > 5B > 5C > 2C > 236236A > OMB > 2B > mudo > 2A+B > SMPx11 > 236A~D

Problem is with this one, you only get 3-4 reps of SMP before they can burst getting you only around 4.2k. Also the opponent has to be all the way in the corner in order for it to work. I hope someone can come up with something better cause having unburstable full damage SMP combos would be awesome.

Edited August 29, 2012 by The_Crazyasian

[Ichipoo]

Is this a good character for beginners? I kind of like her playstyle but I don't think I would be able to consistently do the SMP loops.

Going to come at you straight and just say no. Naoto really requires one to be fully aware of her tools, how to use them effectively and probably requires players to have the most knowledge of her matchups in order to be successful. Don't expect to jump in and start throwing out random pokes and converting them into decent combos. If you have little to no fighting game experience and are picking her up out of character loyalty, then you're in for a rude awakening. Hell, even I'm having trouble from time to time and my Player Match record is terrible.

[JayT]

Going to come at you straight and just say no. Naoto really requires one to be fully aware of her tools, how to use them effectively and probably requires players to have the most knowledge of her matchups in order to be successful. Don't expect to jump in and start throwing out random pokes and converting them into decent combos. If you have little to no fighting game experience and are picking her up out of character loyalty, then you're in for a rude awakening. Hell, even I'm having trouble from time to time and my Player Match record is terrible.

P4A is my first ASW game and I actually haven't played persona either. I mostly play capcom games and have invested a lot of time into SF4. I really like Naoto's keepaway and her ability to do good damage up close if needed. Based on the way you put it, she has a steep learning curve. If I decide to stick with her, would you have any advice to give me?

[Gemakai]

P4A is my first ASW game and I actually haven't played persona either. I mostly play capcom games and have invested a lot of time into SF4. I really like Naoto's keepaway and her ability to do good damage up close if needed. Based on the way you put it, she has a steep learning curve. If I decide to stick with her, would you have any advice to give me?

Strategically use her traps they can mean the difference between taking potentially 3000 damage or dealing it. For instance, have a C trap over your head while trying to zone out Kanji will prevent any pesky Dive Grabs from snatching you.

Use her gun wisely, don't just spam it out unless you know you got a clean hit. What I like to do is fire out a few shots, then quickly cancel and reassume the aim stance (basically, reloading) and keep them on their toes.

Learn the best ways to get down their fate (skull) counters. While not her only way to win, it's very satisfying to kill an enemy at half health because you strategically broke their fate counters and combo'd into Mudoon (236236D). One of my favorite consistent ways is to IAD with j.C, then dash up 5B >5C >2C for 2 counters. Traps also remove 3 counters a pop so it's wise to utilize them. Do note that only the first counter removing move in a combo will actually remove so if your opponent hits a trap and you follow up with 2C somehow, you'll only remove 3 counters as opposed to 5. The only exception to this is her Shotgun Super (236236B) which will remove 6 counters, period. A (meterheavy) way to get an opponent completely down from the max 13 in the corner is like so. Throw (CD) > C follow up (removes 2 counter) > 5C > 236B > 236236B (Removes 6) > 665B > 5C > 236B > 236236B (Removes 6)

Another thing I'd like to point out is her DP, her counter barrier. This move I want to say is one of Naoto's only reversal options and it's... decent. If your opponent is reckless or you guess a good read , you're reward with some damage and removing 2-3 fate counters, so this tool can aid in completely changing the tide of battle.

IAD combos are nice to learn. 5C is jump cancellable on hit and block , so you can do 5C on block and then IAD over to the opponent other side, turning around mid dash and hitting with a j.C crossup to combo into something, while on 5C Counter Hit, you can IAD over to j.A/j.B > j.C > follow up combo.

Those are general basics of Naoto's character, which probably shows how technical she can be in the long run. Still, she's a fun character. Hope you enjoy her.

[JayT]

Strategically use her traps they can mean the difference between taking potentially 3000 damage or dealing it. For instance, have a C trap over your head while trying to zone out Kanji will prevent any pesky Dive Grabs from snatching you.

Use her gun wisely, don't just spam it out unless you know you got a clean hit. What I like to do is fire out a few shots, then quickly cancel and reassume the aim stance (basically, reloading) and keep them on their toes.

Learn the best ways to get down their fate (skull) counters. While not her only way to win, it's very satisfying to kill an enemy at half health because you strategically broke their fate counters and combo'd into Mudoon (236236D). One of my favorite consistent ways is to IAD with j.C, then dash up 5B >5C >2C for 2 counters. Traps also remove 3 counters a pop so it's wise to utilize them. Do note that only the first counter removing move in a combo will actually remove so if your opponent hits a trap and you follow up with 2C somehow, you'll only remove 3 counters as opposed to 5. The only exception to this is her Shotgun Super (236236B) which will remove 6 counters, period. A (meterheavy) way to get an opponent completely down from the max 13 in the corner is like so. Throw (CD) > C follow up (removes 2 counter) > 5C > 236B > 236236B (Removes 6) > 665B > 5C > 236B > 236236B (Removes 6)

Another thing I'd like to point out is her DP, her counter barrier. This move I want to say is one of Naoto's only reversal options and it's... decent. If your opponent is reckless or you guess a good read , you're reward with some damage and removing 2-3 fate counters, so this tool can aid in completely changing the tide of battle.

IAD combos are nice to learn. 5C is jump cancellable on hit and block , so you can do 5C on block and then IAD over to the opponent other side, turning around mid dash and hitting with a j.C crossup to combo into something, while on 5C Counter Hit, you can IAD over to j.A/j.B > j.C > follow up combo.

Those are general basics of Naoto's character, which probably shows how technical she can be in the long run. Still, she's a fun character. Hope you enjoy her.

Thanks for all the info! I feel rather comfortable with her long range game after some time. Definitely gotta put some time into doing IAD and SMP combos.

[Kujikawa]

I'm wondering if SMP combos will be banned in future tournaments?

Do you guys reckon that their that game changing for her? Or are they a key part of her play and you go without them?

[skd]

I'm wondering if SMP combos will be banned in future tournaments?

Do you guys reckon that their that game changing for her? Or are they a key part of her play and you go without them?

they wont be banned, they are really important, learn them, abuse them, love them

[Kyle]

I've been having some success w/ 7J.C as a counter-poke/AntiAir. CH you can still 66 in for a B pick-up. Anybody else?

[MikeySupreme]

I've been having some success w/ 7J.C as a counter-poke/AntiAir. CH you can still 66 in for a B pick-up. Anybody else?

Yep, it's kind of a street fighter jump back fierce type of thing. Naoto can abuse it pretty well too, but you can still get called out on it with an air throw.

[Kyle]

I could be really wrong on this, but are they preferring special moves first because they decay differently than normals? Would doing the 214C, 214D, 236A~D followup to Mudoon be more advantageous for the 2[C] links at the end?

Also, a few opponents have AntiAirs which are amazing and we'll never get to jumpin from the air. Like Elizabeth & Akihikio... we're best off doing an extremely low airdash J.C. Not an IAD J.C, but when you fall from a jump and almost hit the floor.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Kyle

[Ichipoo]

So has anybody successfully used 2B as an AA? Only time I have is when my opponent is doing empty jumps but other than that, it seems like almost everybody's air normals are long enough for them to space it in order to avoid 2B's range.

[OmniSScythe]

I won a $1 for landing a CH 2B AA on Lord Knight, so yeah it's THAT bad.

For the most part you'll be using 2B for the fact that it's air unblockable than for AA.

[DC]

And I'm pretty sure you only landed it by accident lol, but you deserved that hard earned dollar.

[-Otsdarva-]

Naoto mirrors are random as hell, like... when you see someone trying to do the samething your doing it's very annoying. real talk, whoever gets hit with the most shots loses.

[xntrikcat]

Nope, whoever rage bursts early and gets hit by SMP loop loses.

[Rikir]

So has anybody successfully used 2B as an AA? Only time I have is when my opponent is doing empty jumps but other than that, it seems like almost everybody's air normals are long enough for them to space it in order to avoid 2B's range.

Ive gotten lucky and stopped a Raging Lion one time and anti-aired some basic jump ins/air dashes. But really, its horrendous. That hitbox is tiny and whiffs all the damn time. Im pretty sure 5A and 5C are probably better options.

[XDest]

Ive gotten lucky and stopped a Raging Lion one time and anti-aired some basic jump ins/air dashes. But really, its horrendous. That hitbox is tiny and whiffs all the damn time. Im pretty sure 5A and 5C are probably better options.

I try to think of it this way:

Mid/Full screen: Just shoot them

Close: 5A, j.A, 2A, or roll, depending on the attack

If you can get a couple C traps out, your opponent's air game isn't very scary since you have a few more options available.

2B is garbage, unfortunately.

[The_Crazyasian]

In order to use 2B properly, you really have to get a good read on your opponent and oftentimes it's more trouble than its worth. It's hard to just throw it out and get success with it like with Teddy's or Narukami's 2B. It's got shit range and takes till frame 9 of its 11 frame start up to become invulnerable to air moves. But on the upside, if you hit someone with it you get corner carry or if you have 50 meter, you can SMP combo someone for around 8.9k.

Edited September 1, 2012 by The_Crazyasian

[Teh Umby]

I've heard mention of using Hamaon at the end of a block string, then going in for a mixup. Assuming the fate counter is above zero and you successfully mix the opponent up, are there any combos that make it worth the 50 SP?

[OmniSScythe]

So I found out that at "anytime" during the SMP loop if you have 50 meter you can cancel into fear shot on reaction to the burst animation.

You'll actually jump right through the burst and land a easy for 4k damage as well as tons of unrecoverable mental damage to the opponent.

Edited September 1, 2012 by OmniSScythe

[Heroic_Legacy]

Can't I just burst as you're starting the next double fangs and you can't super cancel on whiff?

[OmniSScythe]

Of course, this is just punishing something stupid.

[Ichipoo]

So does Naoto have any other resets other than IAD > j.A/j.B > j.C > airgrab in the corner?

[OmniSScythe]

I personally use the 5C, 214D reset in the corner after an iad chain. From there you can get an air grab into the trap for a full combo or if you land her 2B as an AA you can meterless smp.