[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[KLovesNoodles]

ok ok, you guys are going to kill me but i've been looking for a while but couldn't find it so i thought i put it here and maybe you guys can help me out.

CH j.C>5C>236B~D>dash 5C>IAD j.A>j.C>236A~D

i am having trouble with the dash after D and the instant air dash...i know i know seems crazy.

[The_Crazyasian]

Well I don't know if you're doing it or not but when doing 236B~D, holding down D makes the cancel out of aim happen as fast as possible. For the dash after, I watch for Naoto to raise her arms up at the end of 236B~D and use that as a visual que to buffer the dash.

As for the IAD after C, be careful not to buffer the input for the IAD too fast. If you do you'll just end up jumping in the air. And you probably already knew this but throwing it out there anyways, remember to go 9 > 5 > 6 or the IAD won't work.

[KLovesNoodles]

thank you for the information. I've been trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. ill use those ques you mentioned. ill let you know my progress .

[Gordout]

Anyone have any tips for the Labrys matchup? I just played a pretty good one in a long set and I went 30-4 or so. Really have no idea how to deal with the character and half the time I'm stuck in a mixup that I can't really deal with, or get put back into it immediately. My air normals get beaten out, my traps don't feel useful and just in general I feel like my normals are being outpoked.

[Kyle]

don't end a corner BnB w/ J.D. opponents can recover and j.A your persona on hit,

[KLovesNoodles]

I've been getting better with the iAD but still having alil trouble with the 236B~D dash C. hey, practice makes perfect :-)

[Ichipoo]

I've been getting better with the iAD but still having alil trouble with the 236B~D dash C. hey, practice makes perfect :-)

Depends if the you performed 236B~D on the ground, that just makes it a hell of a lot harder.

[KLovesNoodles]

Depends if the you performed 236B~D on the ground, that just makes it a hell of a lot harder.

I'm sorry what do you mean? I need alil more detail

[HexaNoid]

I'm sorry what do you mean? I need alil more detail

I think he means that the 236B~D > 665C link is a lot easier if you hit 236B on an aerial opponent as opposed to a grounded one.

Edited August 26, 2012 by HexaNoid

[The_Crazyasian]

^ that. I think its actually impossible to do something like 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 66 > 5C on a grounded opponent unless they end up cornered from the 236B~D.

[KLovesNoodles]

i see i see. looks like i'm gonna need more work then i thought. still trying to find out the little things that can help me out

[rochus]

^ that. I think its actually impossible to do something like 5AA > 5C > 236B~D > 66 > 5C on a grounded opponent unless they end up cornered from the 236B~D.

not entirely true...seems to be character specific in my experience so far.

video credit to bmeister

[Kyle]

GG's to XDest. we were very back & forth. XD

[The_Crazyasian]

not entirely true...seems to be character specific in my experience so far.

video credit to bmeister

Actually, now that you mention it, I recall Xie talking about how he and Bond were testing whether or not you could do this to everyone one day on WNF and he said it worked on about half the cast.

[Kyle]

Pro strats, Silence = cannot burst. We need to find ways to force silence early in a SMP combo for that unburstable 8K DMG,

[Rikir]

Pro strats, Silence = cannot burst. We need to find ways to force silence early in a SMP combo for that unburstable 8K DMG,

Hmmmmm... TO THE LAB!

P.S, if I Naoto mirrored with anyone here at SJ6, GGs :D.

[ludwig van]

Pro strats, Silence = cannot burst. We need to find ways to force silence early in a SMP combo for that unburstable 8K DMG,

Yeah, I really think silence is underused. Not only can they not burst, but it really makes it hard for our opponents in certain matchups, like Yukiko, Liz, Naoto mirrors, and even Chie when she's in Awakening (no meteors).

And speaking of tourneys and Naoto mirrors, GGs to the Naoto I mirror matched @ ARK.

[-Otsdarva-]

not entirely true...seems to be character specific in my experience so far.

video credit to bmeister

I just test and here's the results.

Works on.. Mitsuru, Yu, Yosuke, Yukiko, Aigis, Liz, Teddie, and Akihiko

Doesn't work on... Chie, Kanji, Labrys, S.Labrys, and Naoto

Can someone double check those^ 5 characters for me, please?

Testing on Mitsuru, that combo works off..

5B, 5C

5A, 5B, 5C

2A, 5B, 5C

2B, 5C

Anyway, I came here to ask has anyone been using Hamaon as a mix up/pressure tool after a sweep or 236A? I think it's good to use after awakening since you have tons of meter, and of course when they lose all of their skulls you can get one knockdown and spam Hamaon until you get a hit confirm for IK.

Edited August 28, 2012 by -Otsdarva-

[King of Bums]

Ok, SMP is cake for me at this point. My problem is any combo that has me doing 236+B, dash 5C. I just can't seem to get the timing of the gun stance cancel (I know to hold d) to dashing up to 5c. I'm always too short or they tech right as I'm in range. Its so unreasonably hard for her meterless bnb.

[The_Crazyasian]

Anyway, I came here to ask has anyone been using Hamaon as a mix up/pressure tool after a sweep or 236A? I think it's good to use after awakening since you have tons of meter, and of course when they lose all of their skulls you can get one knockdown and spam Hamaon until you get a hit confirm for IK.

I don't really think there's a use for hameon. I mean, if they have 0 skulls by the time you touch them, you should be doing stuff > 2C > mudo. And if you're ending a combo in 236A or sweep, they don't remove skulls so you won't be able to mix them up to IK.

[Zeromus_X]

Hamaon can be useful if you use it properly. The advantage of Hamaon is that it forces the opponent to block Naoto's mixup. If you have 100 meter, it can be worth doing an ambiguous empty-jump or airdash mixup into a SMP combo (AoA SMP or 2A > 5AA > 5C > 2C > SMP, jAA > 5AA > 5C > 2C > SMP, etc) if you'll get the kill. And obviously, if they have 0 fate counters it's really scary because the mixup will mean death no matter what you hit with, as long as you're quick enough. Sometimes you can get away with a blockstring into Hamaon, but it does have a very vulnerable startup so probably the only safe way to use it like that is with 2[C] > Hamaon.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Zeromus_X

[Kyle]

Hamanon into a Fuzzy guard setup for the skull kill is super fun.

2A+B, 236236C. Oki w/ late jumpin J.A, Land & instant J.A.

I am also playing with people air blocking Hamanon... how to setup 2B UB"s or Airthrows to follow-up.

Lastly, I have been successful w/ an interest air-tech traps.

when you hit someone & they are too high to knockdown w/ 5C, 236A~D. We have to go for the air combo. Here we can choose to OMB for the KD, but if we don't i see most people doing this;

C, J.B, J.C, J.C, J.D, backdash.

This sucks. J.D has low dmg and blow back. Setups up a neutral game which you have already been playing since the match began.

Use this instead:

C, SJ.A, J.B, J.C, 214C.

Depending on how they air tech you have options. often people back tech, gets Naoto a surprise 66C+D

Eventually they will respect this & neutral/forward tech. Now they have to block the 214C. You can play w/ anti-air's or more chasing at this point. example, they block 214C, you 66A+C, J.C for a cross-up.

I was able to condition someone is a long set to neutral tech & block. I had used the 214D instead of the expected 214C. Did an airgrab and they landed into the D-trap for a tensionless follow-up.

[Zeromus_X]

214C ender is something I need to use more. I believe I saw Bond do something like "...5c ja ja jb JC ja jb jc 214c" air combo ender to set up the trap at the perfect height where the opponent will air tech into it.

[Kyle]

Try not using your second air option. Grants more tech chasing scenarios.

Who's Bond & why's he not on dustloop?

[The_Crazyasian]

Bond is a naoto player who took 1st at Revelations and was on WNF when they were streaming Persona. As for why he's not on DL, dunno.