[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[Kyle]

Been theorizing about punishing w/ gold burst for all that meter gain... I'll try it for a bit & let everyone know if it's realistic. Also, Nice one to OMNI for the silence/fear burst bait.

[OmniSScythe]

Punishing with gold burst it really good especially when your opponent burst in the previous round, usually if it lands and it leads into SMP it should kill with both players having near even burst gauge the round after.

On another note you can also cancel IAD combo as well as ground chains into Mute/fear if you read it. Heck even OMB can be used as a quick rapid if need be. lol

[Kyle]

Just wanted to document, you cannot OMB into D-trap. Something about a projectile-hit state the opponent is in. I think it's a prevention system from stupid untech projectile loops.

Depending on the combo, height, hitstun etc. Sometimes, you cannot even OMB, A, 236A~D into a D-trap.

[Kyle]

Also,

There is a unique hit-state which throws can be comboed. I found C+D, OMC, C+D. Gotta OMC the first hit the opponent remains in the "spin" state. Useless? probably.

[OmniSScythe]

For Naoto yep, but at least fatal you can combo after C+D if you avoid the follow up.

That hit-state is what Kanji and Liz use to combo into their command grabs.

[Rikir]

So guys, we can connect an AOA off a CH normal, think its worth it? Itd probably be good damage on characters that the IAD combo doesnt work on.

[Kyle]

^ Be awful midscreen. Corner may be good... But i doubt it... Corner we're guaranteed 236B~D follow ups anyways... Just gotta compare BnB numbers. But I like what you're thinking.

[Ichipoo]

Does anybody know how does the 5AAA > jump in oki work? I feel that I'm jumping in too late. And also, how does the sweep > 236A~D > 66 > trap oki that the Japanese players use work? It seems to me that only works if your opponent is being SUPER respectful since they can simply mash out of it. Perhaps I'm doing it too slow?

[Zeromus_X]

For 5AAA, just practice the timing of when you can dash/jump after it recovers. You can get killer safejumps with jA/jC with it.

Trap oki is harder, and it really is a matter of how much you mix it up and how much the opponent respects you. One thing that really helped me start making people respect it more was throwing them right after the D trap which I saw in Bond's tutorial vid. This stops rolls and keeps them honest in blocking, but obviously loses to DP. Basically, just mix up your crossups, throws, quick escape crossovers, and meaty attacks to keep them respectful, but don't be surprised when people DP out because Naoto just doesn't have the "you gun block now" oki like Yu, Chie, or Yukiko. On the positive side, getting hit by a meaty trap is much more rewarding (potentially ToD'ing a char depending on resources) than the crazy pressure characters who still have to reset you a few more times.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Zeromus_X

[OmniSScythe]

Does anybody know how does the 5AAA > jump in oki work? I feel that I'm jumping in too late. And also, how does the sweep > 236A~D > 66 > trap oki that the Japanese players use work? It seems to me that only works if your opponent is being SUPER respectful since they can simply mash out of it. Perhaps I'm doing it too slow?

Unless your getting tagged by a DP you should be doing it fine, buffering a dash is to get that really meaty j.C in.

As for trap oki, yeah it's all about respect.

[Gravelneed]

When are the best times to use 5D? I mainly use it after the SMG mute super.

Also I'm having trouble connecting those midscreen IAD combos. Should I be micro dashing the 5C after each JC?

[stickystaines]

It depends what you mean by 'mash out of it' i guess. If they press a button as they wake up or try to DP, then i think you can just block and the trap will hit them (or be in line for a punish if they DP).

I did see one setup in the corner where he went for trap oki and then neutral jumped. They blocked the trap, but this sets up the low airdash j.A/land c.A mixup. Not sure how air tight it is, but might be something to consider if you get them in the corner.

[Zeromus_X]

I pretty much use 5d after any autocombo ender or whenever the opponent hesitates to approach in neutral. Looks stylish to combo into it, can give you a free way in depending on spacing, and a raw hit into Mudoon SMP loop kills every character.

[Kyle]

So, Confirming what Omni is talking about. AoA's first hit causes the same throw enabled spin state. AOA, OMC, 66 C+D. Useless, but mildly interesting to know.

Also, Gold burst are considered Projectile. You will not be burst punishing Yukiko's furious action. It's a shame b/c that's one of the matchups I am desperate for meter.

Lastly, Could someone plz link this "Bond Naoto" video.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Kyle

[Rikir]

So, Confirming what Omni is talking about. AoA's first hit causes the same throw enabled spin state. AOA, OMC, 66 C+D. Useless, but mildly interesting to know.

Also, Gold burst are considered Projectile. You will not be burst punishing Yukiko's furious action. It's a shame b/c that's one of the matchups I am desperate for meter.

Lastly, Could someone plz link this "Bond Naoto" video.

I believe this is the one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nT2_7_ieA4

I skimped through it, it seems really good for starters and he explains everything very well. But Im not so much for sitting around for the full 30 minutes lol.

Oh and on the subject of 5D, I actually use that as the main part of my oki game to setup something similar to Yu's, only easier to block and get out of. My basic combo into 5D setup is like 5AA, 5B, 5C, 2AB, 5D. I then proceed to run up and do as many high/lows while Sukuna Hikuna can come and slash anytime I do anything unsafe.

[JayT]

In regards to SMP loop combos, I know you need to have 10 unique moves before the actual loop but how is the combo affected if there's 11 or more unique moves or 10 unique with some duplicate commands? More scaling involved?

[Kyle]

^ http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14537-Naoto-Shirogane-Combos-quot-My-skills-have-been-honed!-quot-%28WIP-updated-8-31-2012%29&p=1358428&viewfull=1#post1358428

[TsukasaxGemini]

I'm having trouble doing the SMP Loop :\ I very simple one as a matter a fact. I was doing it yesterday and pulled it off fine. I try it again later fail, wake up this morning again fail again >.>

Anyways I'm not much of a notations expert but can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I know I don't drop it, I just don't provoke the Loop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lycWPagQp-4&feature=plcp

It's suppose to be

2AB(Sweep)--> 236AB(Double Fangs)-->Mudoon-->214D(Ground Trap)-->2A(Crouching A)--> 5B(Standing B)-->Double Fangs A--->2b(Crouching B)---> 5C(Standing C)---> Double Fangs B x9000. (10)

[Ichipoo]

I only count 9 moves before the Niren Kiba. The loop won't work until you chain 10 different moves. After Niren Kiba A, try shooting a B bullet and cancel out of Aim stance immediately so you can perform 2B > 2C > loop.

[TsukasaxGemini]

Thanks got it! I forgot you needed ten moves haha.

[Agni]

Man, after going into training mode today while bored, I think I'll drop Labrys and switch to Naoto. She's just so much fun with all if her traps and zoning.

[Ichipoo]

http://youtu.be/X8eG6ZBCxN8

http://youtu.be/cPRj9t5jwRM

http://youtu.be/cPRj9t5jwRM

http://youtu.be/X8eG6ZBCxN8

GREAT Yu vs Naoto set here. This here is a great example of how Naoto should be played while also mixing in a few tricks in order to keep his opponent guessing. And besides, it's Denpa.

[Agni]

Wait, why did that Naoto use Mudoon in the very first match of the set, when his opponent wasn't out of fate counters yet?

[OutlawVinegar]

Naoto players use Mudoon for a few reasons outside of confirming Fate Counter Instant Kills:

1. For full-screen carry/ wallstick

2. For the dramatically increased unBurstable hitstun it has while active

3. Most importantly, SMP loops.

Point 2 and 3 are the most notable, since if you know the SMP loop/variations of it, you almost need Mudoon to start it, and if you don't know the loops, it still gives you a day and a half to set up oki. It helps that Mudoon is pretty easy to confirm into off of a lot of different 'starters'.

[Ichipoo]

Wait, why did that Naoto use Mudoon in the very first match of the set, when his opponent wasn't out of fate counters yet?

It's because Mudoon has positive proration, which allows Naoto to deal massive damage and also her infamous Same Move Proration combos, which makes her have the highest damage potential in the game.

EDIT: Damn it, got ninja'd.