[P4A] Chie Satonaka - Gameplay Discussion

[Primiera]

What are the safe oki options if you're unsure a Furious Action is coming? Obviously we can just not attack and bait it out, but are there better options? The only one I know of is if you go for the empty jump 2A mix-up, if you air-block the whole time it blocks air-blockable Furious Actions. I suppose the same principle applies to blocking until the air dash JBB?

Was anyone aware that SB version of black spot (214+CD) had armor on it? It seems that the armor is not there at startup, but when she starts moving her palms forward. SB version is not a fatal though, but I'm sure this would be good to make people eat counterhits and it still wallbounces on hit.

I'm gonna have to try that against an Aigis player I spar with constantly. Once she gets in sweep range there's almost nothing I can do to keep her out, including jump back D or C, so this seems like a good option if it's safe on block like 214C.

[Kryian]

I can't be the only one that's run in to this but I'll mention it anyway just in case - after you hit with an AoA you can delay the followup long enough that it doesn't combo. Strangely enough though all they can do is block or burst - no mashing, FA, or any of that business. If you catch them holding on forward or upback though you'll hit for insane damage. The fatal will do 3k, an easy combo will do 6. Shouldn't really work on anyone, but kinda neat I guess.

[Sorias]

It literally lets you get in for free on the vast majority of the cast

As opposed to what? I mean, skillful use of air-dash lets me get in for free on the vast majority of the cast, too, and doesn't lose to a reaction super. I'm not disagreeing that meteors are good, I'm disagreeing with the statement "most broken neutral move in the entire game".

What are the safe oki options if you're unsure a Furious Action is coming?

I think it's really character-dependant. Against the air-unblockable FAs, I think you still want to throw out your 5DD for the opponent to reversal through, but just backdash so only Tomoe gets hit? Against labrys or something, though, you kind of want to be in the air to cross them up. Some of them, though, I'm not even sure... Tomoe will trigger Naoto's FA, for example, so you really do just have to bait by doing nothing.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Sorias

[neth]

chie notes

Looks good to me, man. No changes or additions come to mind immediately since I haven't played much and you're still working on it. I wrote down some stuff from watching videos as well and I'll probably put it in a doc this weekend after I clean it up a bit.

[Rhiya]

As opposed to what? I mean, skillful use of air-dash lets me get in for free on the vast majority of the cast, too, and doesn't lose to a reaction super. I'm not disagreeing that meteors are good, I'm disagreeing with the statement "most broken neutral move in the entire game".

If you're getting in "for free" with airdashes, you're just playing bad players

Airdashes are risky as fuck

Meteor super literally locks the opponent in place long enough for you to run up to them and start pressure or mixup, and this actually works against good players (in matchups where your opponents don't have easy answers like Yu 214)

[Primiera]

What do you guys use for go-to fast, farther out punishes, a little beyond 5A's range? 2A > 236A etc? 2B > 236A? What do you guys like punishing AoAs with?

Also, is Labrys's overhead special safe on block? Haven't successfully punished it yet.

[ZomB]

5C dash 5B 2B 2AB (midscreen) -- if this doesn't work you're going to have to do a dash in to jab. Seeing as 5a is 5f and 2a is 7f you should be able to do this.

5c dash 5b 5c 236a 236a 5b 5c 236b 236b 214d 236236d should work too for a corner combo.

[Rhiya]

What do you guys use for go-to fast, farther out punishes, a little beyond 5A's range? 2A > 236A etc? 2B > 236A? What do you guys like punishing AoAs with?

Also, is Labrys's overhead special safe on block? Haven't successfully punished it yet.

Not sure. I'll try to check later.

For now, though, know that if you want to check if something is safe on block, this is what you do:

1. Set the training dummy as the character whose moves you want to test.

2. Record them doing that move, and hold back or downback immediately after inputting the move (or the last part of the move, if it requires multiple inputs like Rampage>Skull Cracker).

3. Play it back, block it, and attempt to jab the recovery with the fastest normal you have. (For Chie, it's 5A. She's actually really good for this because her 5A is tied for fastest in the game.)

4. Try this a couple of times. If you can ever jab them after you come out of blockstun but before you start blocking, it's unsafe.

5. (Optional) If it's punishable, you can attempt to see how punishable it is by seeing if you can punish it with normals slower than 5A, like 5B.

5C dash 5B 2B 2AB (midscreen) -- if this doesn't work you're going to have to do a dash in to jab. Seeing as 5a is 5f and 2a is 7f you should be able to do this.

5c dash 5b 5c 236a 236a 5b 5c 236b 236b 214d 236236d should work too for a corner combo.

This actually reminds me of something I wanted to make sure I posted, but forgot.

Since 5C is only DCable on hit or block, whenever you throw it out in neutral to catch people rushing in on you, input a forward dash to confirm it or continue pressure. You won't dash if they avoid it, and you're not going to confirm it into pressure or damage /unless/ you dash.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos

[OceanBlue]

This actually reminds me of something I wanted to make sure I posted, but forgot.

Since 5C is only DCable on hit or block, whenever you throw it out in neutral to catch people rushing in on you, input a forward dash to confirm it or continue pressure. You won't dash if they avoid it, and you're not going to confirm it into pressure or damage /unless/ you dash.

I don't think this leaves you positive on characters with fast jabs. At the very least, I tested it with Akihiko and his jab will always come out before yours.

I might have done his 2A against Chie's 2A though. I don't remember for sure. It's something people might want to keep in mind though.

[toanenadiz]

Also, is Labrys's overhead special safe on block? Haven't successfully punished it yet.

It's A version is minus on block but the pushback makes it almost impossible for most characters to punish. The B version is even on block. But you can DP the second hit of the special if you IB the first hit.

[Rhiya]

I don't think this leaves you positive on characters with fast jabs. At the very least, I tested it with Akihiko and his jab will always come out before yours.

I might have done his 2A against Chie's 2A though. I don't remember for sure. It's something people might want to keep in mind though.

Yeah, but you're just as bad off if you don't autoconfirm it and it does hit; your dash will be late, which makes your combo drop and allows your opponent to mash out

You shouldn't be throwing 5C out in neutral unless you think people are going to run into it, anyways

[ZomB]

I'd rather just hold 9 during the cancel period. If it hits them or is blocked ground-to-ground you get a good setup for j.C. If it hits or is blocked ground-to-air I listed both a combo for oki and damage above. Air to air strings to pull people to the ground are pretty easy too.

[TexasTim]

Sorry if this has already been posted, 24 pages is a lot to read through.

Just something interesting. With the opponent in the corner, Chie's j.236A/B/AB, if done above them, can pull them out of the corner. On whiff, you will see the opponent turn around, then turn back. If the 1st or last hit is blocked or hits, they are facing the wrong way and you can land in the corner. However, as far as I can tell, this is useless in a match. I'm only posting it to see if anyone else can come up with some use for this.

I found ways to cross up with One More Cancel, but if the opponent is human, and continues holding back to block, they will just walk back into the corner. I did find some full block strings that would end with the opponent pulled slightly out of the corner, or completely pop them out of the corner; namely j.C > j.236A(1 meaning last hit only) with slight spacing differences on j.C. But I think that you would have to One More Cancel when you hit the ground and do anything with it; like j(7).AC > 66 j.B. But this just seems too slow to be useful to me...

Edit: The only thing I can find as being remotely useful is: Corner Knockdown > 2D > j(9).C > j.236A(1) > j.ABC > 5B.

2D Oki is DP bait, it will whiff. j.C them high in the jump and the last hit of j.236A will be blocked. On block of the last hit, one of 2 things should happen: either they get pulled slightly out of the corner, and you land on the correct side, or they get popped out of the corner and you land in the corner. One More Cancel the j.236A immediately, land, and 5B.

It seems like the opponent cannot be in block stun during part of the j.236A, or they will not turn and face the wrong direction. So it just seems real bad to use when DP can just rape it.

Edit 2: Typos...

Edited August 20, 2012 by TexasTim

[GMcustom]

I am in love with that 2B kara grab!

[Rabbit360]

It's easier than you'd think. Note that you can hit A and B together while mashing, so exactly 15 hits is the initial hit, plus hitting A+B exactly 7 times, you have to do it too fast to count or anything, but you can practice for it and pick up the muscle memory. It's also super useful to watch the hit counter, and you can basically estimate when it's going to hit 15, and switch to C or D.

I hit A+B 10 times in a rhythm starting when she jumps on their head, followed by C/D, and hit fatal on 16 a very high percentage of the time.

I'm sure everyone else has their method too, just sharing.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Rabbit360

[Primiera]

What move has the most block-stun to initiate mix-ups like J7 > 2D, or AoA, or throw, or J9 > JC? It's probably 5B or 5C, I'm not sure.

[ZomB]

I would go in to AoA off something that implies you'll go low. (j.BB land AoA) -- since they will be anticipating 2a it has a much higher chance of working. (Alternatively run a 5a 2a 5a stagger and then mix in a 5a AoA occasoinally, AoA has Super Armor so it should be mash proof)

5a and 5c both make great "ticks" on block. 5a is +1 so it's great for pushing the opponent in to the corner or going in to a throw afterwards.

I'll occasionally run 5c j7 j2d. There is the 5c iad j.C OMB double cross-up posted elsewhere on these forums. As mentioned previously 5a/throw is really strong.

[kirbster]

Any other scrubby Chie going to Summer Jam? :D

[ZomB]

I'll be at Summer Jam. I should be arriving in Philly airport at like noon.

Noon tomorrow that is. Call me out on Twitter @ziggyjp or something

[kirbster]

Awesome, I dont have twitter but my friends do, we'll figure something out.

Try to make it for the Canada vs US 8v8 tonight if it ever happens lol (though I'm not sure what games will be played)

[ZomB]

Eliminated in pools. Lost to NerdJosh twice, knocked out Omnisscythe and DC. 5th in my pool, 17th overall(out of 125ish.)

[Kujikawa]

Thats an awesome turn out.

Will there be videos from the event uploaded? I would like to see how fellow Chie's got on in America.

[Rhiya]

Eliminated in pools. Lost to NerdJosh twice, knocked out Omnisscythe and DC. 5th in my pool, 17th overall(out of 125ish.)

Good shit.

Also.

>Sees PSN

YOU were the legit Chie blowing my shit up in ranked. GGs

[GMcustom]

What move has the most block-stun to initiate mix-ups like J7 > 2D, or AoA, or throw, or J9 > JC? It's probably 5B or 5C, I'm not sure.

D Black Spot has a grip of block stun

[Rhiya]

It'd have to be seriously plus for that to work

I doubt 214D is /that/ plus

Really, if you want to run dangerous mixup on someone during pressure, gatling into 2DD/5DD