Kujikawa Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 Do you reckon Chie is top tier? I keep hearing that she is, but I'm not sure if people are trolling or actually being serious. Fuck Europe and their delays. Gj at SJ Kirbster.
Primiera Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Do you reckon Chie is top tier? I keep hearing that she is, but I'm not sure if people are trolling or actually being serious. Fuck Europe and their delays. Gj at SJ Kirbster. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd say she's just out of top tier. She's a really good character, with a BRUTAL oki game and really good strings/pressure, but her footsies are pretty situational and she's outclassed in that regard by the truly top tier characters Mitsuru, Yu, and Aigis, and plenty of other characters around her same league like Teddie and Yosuke. Chie has what it takes to win any match, a tool for almost any situation, yet I feel she has a good portion of bad match-ups. I will say one thing: every character is amazing. Every character has stuff to make you rip your hair out. Edited August 31, 2012 by Primiera
ZomB Posted August 31, 2012 Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Found out tonight that 236B is not only safe on block, Chie's a bit advantageous on it, giving her a really strong high/low/throw mix-up if the opponent doesn't insta-block the final hit. I might try to incorporate this as a frame trap in block-strings, though 214D is probably a better bet as a frame trap if you know they're pressing normals to stop Tomoe pressure or JC. Most chars can mash R-Action during the middle of your 236B if they crouch, I don't recommend using this in blockstrings. Something I haven't seen mentioned though is 236A(1) OMC jA/B during blockstrings for an instant overhead. This comes out really fast. Do you reckon Chie is top tier? I keep hearing that she is, but I'm not sure if people are trolling or actually being serious. Fuck Europe and their delays. Gj at SJ Kirbster. My personal tier list, from strongest to weakest, with the letters marking significant power gaps. S: Aigis, Mitsuru, Chie, Yu A: Teddie, Yosuke, Akihiko, Shadow Labrys, Yukiko, Naoto, Elizabeth B: Kanji, Labrys And personal Chie matchups. (No experience with Yukiko, so she isn't included, she seems annoying but has slow normals so Chie only has to get in once or twice) ++: Kanji, Labrys +: Liz, Naoto, Shadow Lab Even: Aigis, Mitsuru, Akihiko -: Yu, Yosuke --: Teddie Edited August 31, 2012 by ZomB
DJ_Blactricity Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 Is 5DD 2A whiff rising j.B whiff an option select for something?
Meowmix Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Even: Mitsuru lol nope. Edited September 1, 2012 by Meowmix
Primiera Posted September 1, 2012 Posted September 1, 2012 What's the trick to knowing when to do 2B > JBB or 2B > JB > JC? Height dependent?
ZomB Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) lol nope. I mean, you're welcome to your opinion -- but compared to Yosuke/Teddie/Akihiko I consider Mitsuru a really easy matchup to play as Chie. As long as you're not afraid to block and play patient If you get impatient it's really free for Mitsuru. What's the trick to knowing when to do 2B > JBB or 2B > JB > JC? Height dependent? You use j.BB when you're going for the AoA ender and j.BC for a sweep ender. AoA ender is a lot stronger. I've been personally running 2B > j.C > dj.BB 8D AoA as an incredibly consistent knockdown combo off 2b. Edited September 2, 2012 by ZomB
Rhiya Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 Afraid to block against someone with an instant overhead? Now, why would I be afraid of that?
ZomB Posted September 2, 2012 Posted September 2, 2012 Her overhead is about 15f give or take. She gets next to no damage off of it unless she spends 50 meter, and is put in a not so advantageous situation(non cancel j.B) unless it counterhits you. She also gets very little damage off of 2A. All of her real damage comes from counter hits and anti-airs. It's NOT that scary.
kirbster Posted September 3, 2012 Posted September 3, 2012 Man, I have a lot of trouble playing footsies with Chie for real. She needs like a big ass sword or a pumpkin or something... The only way I've been able to use Tomoe consistently in neutral without her getting broken all the time is random 5c's obviously and j.2d when I'm right above their head >.<
Kujikawa Posted September 3, 2012 Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) Man, I have a lot of trouble playing footsies with Chie for real. She needs like a big ass sword or a pumpkin or something... The only way I've been able to use Tomoe consistently in neutral without her getting broken all the time is random 5c's obviously and j.2d when I'm right above their head >.< Try Extend Makoto :3 But then again at least had Particle Flair. Chie needs a projectile, like she throws steak at you or something to do with Bufu. But a Pumpkin... that would be sooo OP. Edited September 3, 2012 by Kujikawa
Rhiya Posted September 3, 2012 Posted September 3, 2012 I want double airdash, personally. Don't get why no one has it at all. Her okizeme would be /so/ good with double airdash, too.
ZomB Posted September 3, 2012 Posted September 3, 2012 Man, I have a lot of trouble playing footsies with Chie for real. She needs like a big ass sword or a pumpkin or something... The only way I've been able to use Tomoe consistently in neutral without her getting broken all the time is random 5c's obviously and j.2d when I'm right above their head >.< j.C has a (relatively) fast recovery actually, and is great for beating out a lot of anti airs. But it's liable to trade and you lose a card anyways (but at least you get a combo).
Akiro Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Hey guys, just picked up Chie as my main (May Liz rest in peace) and so far I've been focusing on combos that KD rather than damage. Midscreen - 2A 5A 5B 2B 2AB J.2D/5DD/2DD Oki depending on placement and character, start with J.5BB into beginner mixups/combos after Oki My corner game is getting a bit better though 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 2AB Oki 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 236A 236A 5B 5C 5AB Oki 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 236A 236A 5B 5C j.5B j.5C j.5BB j.C j.236C 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 236A 236A 236236A 236B 236B 214C 236236D Any tips on where I should go from here? I've been trying to get into Side switching and Back dashing into j.5B cross up but I still feel like I'm lacking alot of other fundamental things that I should be focusing on.
Primiera Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Hey guys, just picked up Chie as my main (May Liz rest in peace) and so far I've been focusing on combos that KD rather than damage. Midscreen - 2A 5A 5B 2B 2AB J.2D/5DD/2DD Oki depending on placement and character, start with J.5BB into beginner mixups/combos after Oki My corner game is getting a bit better though 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 2AB Oki 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 236A 236A 5B 5C 5AB Oki 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 236A 236A 5B 5C j.5B j.5C j.5BB j.C j.236C 5B 5C 2B 2C 5B 236A 236A 236236A 236B 236B 214C 236236D Any tips on where I should go from here? I've been trying to get into Side switching and Back dashing into j.5B cross up but I still feel like I'm lacking alot of other fundamental things that I should be focusing on. In terms of combos, there are a lot of crouch only hit-confirms you'll want to practice, mainly off of j.BB. Mid-screen you can do 5AAA > 236B > 5AA > 5B > 2B > 2AB as an oki-ender, 5B > 2B > 5C > 236A > 236B > 236D for meterless damage, and any 236A/B > 236B > 66 5C > dash 5A > 5C > 214C > 236236D for Super ender on crouchers. In the corner: JBB > 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 236B > 5AA > 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 5B > 2AB (0%@3374, Crouchers only) JBB > 5AA > 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 236A > 236B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 214D > 236236D (50%@4,728, crouchers only) You're losing almost 1K damage on both of those combos if you opt for non-croucher combos. Luckily it's easy to crouch confirm just off of the JBB, and in the case of the second combo, you can do everything exactly the same except go into 236A > 236A > 214D > 236236D for roughly 4K damage. Make sure to add empty jump 2A > 5B > 5C to your mix-ups in the corner, and empty jump 2A > 5B > 2B to your mix-ups mid-screen. If you always go high you'll be in trouble when you get people who catch on, or people who refuse to block low until blocking (these people are out there). 2A shakes them up, makes them want to guess low for the next time. I'm unsure if those combos you listed are off of JBB, but if they aren't you shouldn't be hitting those corner combos raw, as in terms of punishing 5B (CH) > 2D is far better. Don't end combos in 236C unless you have to, there are basically two general enders to combos, 2/5+AB and 236236D (outside of Power Charge and throw OMC 236D enders and the like), unless your opponent's character can mess with oki options. Edited September 4, 2012 by Primiera
Rhiya Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 If you don't use 4A, you'll be inputting the next 5A way too slow; you could get mashed out between your 5As, which is not something you'd want happening. Also, you should be inputting it as [4]A anyways to block any DP attempts after you recover. You're missing half the point if you're not doing that.
Primiera Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) If you don't use 4A, you'll be inputting the next 5A way too slow; you could get mashed out between your 5As, which is not something you'd want happening. Also, you should be inputting it as [4]A anyways to block any DP attempts after you recover. You're missing half the point if you're not doing that. If you're able to block 9+ frame DPs, it's not really a frame trap or constant pressure anymore, though with the JC, 5A > 66 5A, and 214D frame traps it can be really scary to mash normals. This type of pressure is more for high level play when opponents almost never mash normals except for a read. Edited September 4, 2012 by Primiera
Errol Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 If you don't use 4A, you'll be inputting the next 5A way too slow; you could get mashed out between your 5As, which is not something you'd want happening. Also, you should be inputting it as [4]A anyways to block any DP attempts after you recover. You're missing half the point if you're not doing that. This is wrong. If you're doing it correctly, it doesn't matter if you are inputting 5a or 4a, 5aa WILL NOT come out. and 5a is +1 on block. Only the slowest dps will be able to be blocked if you did a 5a. Yu, mitsuru, you will be hit before you recover. You probably can't even block Shadow Labrys' dp in time (15 frames).
Rhiya Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Yes, you won't be blocking if you do 5A 5A/5A 2A/5A anything. But 5A (wait a moment while blocking) 5A is just as legitimate a stagger as 5A 5A. It's just a different option that you should be able to do if you want to. Always inputting 5A as 4A just makes it easier to choose to do it on the fly. EDIT: This is wrong. If you're doing it correctly, it doesn't matter if you are inputting 5a or 4a, 5aa WILL NOT come out I want to know what kind of sorcery you're using to make inputting 5aa not give you 5aa. It seriously doesn't make a damn bit of sense. The only thing I can think is that you're inputting 5A (wait a while) 5A, but then you can just get 2A/5A mashed because it takes too long to input your second 5A. (This, I absolutely know from experience.) You should test what you're doing in training, and see if it actually works. Edited September 4, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
Errol Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) well, I think I'm thinking about something different than what you are. You're talking about late chaining 5a into 5a. Which, if you want to get a 5a, you need to do 4a. and if you do this you can leave a 1 frame gap, and you'll probably recover before a dp hits. I'm talking about the situation where you're actually at +1. no gatling involved. Which can't be 2a/5a mashed out of unless they IB. which, to be fair, is my fault, cuz while an important part of 'stagger pressure', isn't the 'stagger pressure' part itself... Edited September 4, 2012 by Errol
kirbster Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Dusk, you can do 5a x n stagger without using 4a, just gotta time it right. I don't think inputting 4a is a good habit to take, just link it properly. Try hitting 5a dash 5a dash 5a dash 5a, all combo'ing... I dunno how you'll get that by using 4a. A good example of that (which shames me a bit to actually have put effort into lol) is in SFxTK where you can chain from light to medium to heavy (crouching or standing hits are allowed). So with Xiaoyu you gotta do cr.LP linked into st.MP in order to special cancel into 236PP... but if you do it too fast, it will chain instead of link and you can't get the special cancel. So it's just a matter of learning the link timing.
TG_Sneak Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I didn't see this posted anywhere yet but I've been seeing combos where they would do the normal corner bnb ending in 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 5B > 2AB > 214C > 236236C OR D, not too sure which one.
Primiera Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I didn't see this posted anywhere yet but I've been seeing combos where they would do the normal corner bnb ending in 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 5B > 2AB > 214C > 236236C OR D, not too sure which one. I've seen that, pretty sure it's a swag combo used to finish opponents off rather than optimal damage over the 236A > 236A > 214D > 236236D ender.
Errol Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Actually, you can't gatling 5a into 5a at all. 5a->4a doesn't work. If you mash 4a, it'll come out after 5a recovers, which 5a leaves you at +1 (barring IB). The opponent has time to attack and also will hit you, guaranteed, if they have a good DP (i.e. mitsuru). so, not much reason to use 4a.
Rhiya Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Actually, you can't gatling 5a into 5a at all. 5a->4a doesn't work. If you mash 4a, it'll come out after 5a recovers, which 5a leaves you at +1 (barring IB). The opponent has time to attack and also will hit you, guaranteed, if they have a good DP (i.e. mitsuru). so, not much reason to use 4a. If you use 4A, you can use advance input to input your next 5A. If you do that, it's a frametrap, and beats /everyone's/ jabs. (Inputting a 5f 5A at +1 advantage = even if they have a 5f 5a, yours would come out first and they'd get CH'd.) If your second 5A doesn't come out quickly enough after your first, you can just get 5A'd out of your pressure. So, yeah, there's a reason to do input it as 4A with advanced input. It's the difference between like a 5f timing and a 1f timing on inputting that frametrap, since if you input a 5A during 5A's recovery, you'd get 5AA, but if you input a 4A, you would get either nothing (too early) or another 5A (on time). Using 4A like this allows you to use advanced input to get the next 5A out as soon as possible. FINAL EDIT: And you do it like this so that their ONLY way out is DP/A+C. You can beat A+C by doing x string, and you can beat DP by baiting it out right in the middle of your string (since 5A being plus lets you do that). This is exactly why Chie stagger is so scary. Edited September 5, 2012 by Dusk Thanatos
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