Setsuna Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Very winnable if you can make your opponent respect your option Teddy 5b isn't really good actually, iad/roll in can get through and punish his 5b easily, what makes this fight hard is his mobility + garbage setup and j.a, Labrys need to be very patient on this match up, having a health lead also means a lot on this match up. Liz ... not sure, and her 2b isn't as good as other character imo, once u get through Thanatos, she's done. You really have to respect Teddie ... on paper that sounds simple enough but against someone who knows what theyre doing its hell especially with all his items helping to lock Labrys down. Liz 2B is really good, covers alot of space I believe ... I haven't looked at the hitbox in a while but its annoying. Even if Thanatos is down a Liz with a solid defense can still hold her own against Labrys, its not like her mixups are anything to fear once you've seen them enough.
redsilversnake Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Liz should be 5:5, you just seem pretty biased towards zoners... she only has 1-2 yomi setups anyways. 90% of her blockstring mixup can be and should be dealt with via reactions Liz is definitely not 5:5. I haven't played in a while (stick's getting dual-modded), but in the last few days I played, I was becoming increasingly convinced that Labrys simply cannot get in on her unless the Liz player just outright fucks up or gets read. All of her B normals alone are good at keeping Labrys out, and the fact that she freely gets meter when her meter options are better than most of Labrys' means you're often at her mercy. You're right that her blockstrings are pretty poor and usually not that hard to react to, but she more than makes up for it at neutral. I would also disagree about Kanji and Akihiko. As far as I can tell, those are her only even MUs. Kanji, largely because of anime grappler syndrome, but even with Akihiko, although he'll get more damage more regularly, neither of his Persona normals are that good in general, j.B usually outspaces him (though you do indeed need to be wary of his 2B), and his DP isn't quite as good as certain others. All in all, I'd just say it's more of a momentum-based MU than a slightly bad one.
TransientFaith Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Liz is definitely not 5:5. I haven't played in a while (stick's getting dual-modded), but in the last few days I played, I was becoming increasingly convinced that Labrys simply cannot get in on her unless the Liz player just outright fucks up or gets read. All of her B normals alone are good at keeping Labrys out, and the fact that she freely gets meter when her meter options are better than most of Labrys' means you're often at her mercy. You're right that her blockstrings are pretty poor and usually not that hard to react to, but she more than makes up for it at neutral. I would also disagree about Kanji and Akihiko. As far as I can tell, those are her only even MUs. Kanji, largely because of anime grappler syndrome, but even with Akihiko, although he'll get more damage more regularly, neither of his Persona normals are that good in general, j.B usually outspaces him (though you do indeed need to be wary of his 2B), and his DP isn't quite as good as certain others. All in all, I'd just say it's more of a momentum-based MU than a slightly bad one. Again this is pretty opinion-based but truth is liz only has 1 really good B normal in her repertoire for this matchup and that's 2B. 5B is trash ask ANY liz player. and j.B has an amazing dead zone that let's her either get air thrown out if she times incoming j.B and lets her eat our 2B for free is she times outgoing j.B. The exception being 5B as a persona-punish-punish in the corner but if you watched that one swag combo video, you can completely disrespect that punish with 236AB The fact that Kanji players are not scared of Labrys at all and 5C (your only safe/real/best) cannot win you matches... I'll let your imagination take it from there Akihiko is just a better Labrys. And pretty much if hes feeling himself, he'll air CH DP your j.B approaches for free with a delicious combo afterwards. Yes this MU is momentum, but we are not talking about case-by-case. Akihiko just has good tools in this matchup and Labrys's doesn't have as good (not saying she doesn't have ANY cuz sword chain is still hella fun). Plus free damage > corner carry is still free damage with corner carry
Tecta1Eastside Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Not exactly the place to discuss this but whatever, agree subforum/thread is dead. I don't agree with those for various reasons, but we are all entitled our opinions. Red addressed chie and 5c is stupid. Kanji has an advantage in this matchup. Not a big one though, just stupidity pretty much. If he's in you have to guess. He can D grab you out of Sharin super (because he needs a meterless punish for your only decent reversal). His damage (although capped at around 5-6k) is about even with you percentage-wise (your peak 6-8k) due to his high health Akihiko has slight advantage, but I'm biased. Everybody's 2B beats Labrys's j.B depending on timing/spacing. 2C Caesar cannot be punished even on instant block, even less so if he has wind gauge Mitsuru is just annoying. Her 5A is better than ours because it has more range and both have bad recovery, but very hard for lab to punish Mitsuru whiff 5a Liz should be 5:5, you just seem pretty biased towards zoners... she only has 1-2 yomi setups anyways. 90% of her blockstring mixup can be and should be dealt with via reactions To each their own. I don't see labrys having any good matchups, but all her matchups are winnable so I'm not complaining as much anymore Im not biased towards zoners at all. If anything I'm would be biased towards yosuke,misturu, yu, and aigis. Those characters characters give me the hardest time overall. I understand and feel like all the above is logical and legit far as your comparison on match-ups. As far as akihiko, is the air version of caesar's sword attack is that unsafe on IB? I also agree on labrys match-ups being winnable. I still have my bad pocket shadow labrys for no reason:) Glad the thread isnt having huge arguements too:)
TransientFaith Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Yep. If the Akihiko mis-spaces their j.C (ie. too close to you), on normal block you can run up and 5A it for free. Not sure if its free counterhit but 5A CH vs 5A makes no difference on grounded opponents
excelence Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 You really have to respect Teddie ... on paper that sounds simple enough but against someone who knows what theyre doing its hell especially with all his items helping to lock Labrys down. Liz 2B is really good, covers alot of space I believe ... I haven't looked at the hitbox in a while but its annoying. Even if Thanatos is down a Liz with a solid defense can still hold her own against Labrys, its not like her mixups are anything to fear once you've seen them enough. I've already explained Teddy 5b is the less thing u need to worry on that Match up, and yes you should respect Teddy Option that's why i already said Patience is very important here. About Liz 2b, i've harder time to get around other character 2b, My regular match up is Yu and Teddie, getting in on them is a lot harder than when i'm fighting Liz and then we move on at Health issue when Labryss can get in after footsie games, She kill Liz in 1 combos isn't a rare sight... that's why i also agree Liz match up is 5:5.
Guardian Posted November 19, 2012 Posted November 19, 2012 All this MU talk and NO mention of how amazing Lab's j.A is? Me sad. That's ok, b/c in the end...... LOW TIER NO FEAR
Skeletal Minion Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 I'm dropping P4A (hopefully for good this time), so I've decided to share some of my notes I've compiled through my time in the lab with Labrys. Some of this may already be known, and some of it needs more testing or might end up being gimmicky/useless, but hopefully people may be able to take away at least something. Order is going to be pretty random since I jotted my notes down by hand. If someone has a question, just ask and I'll try to answer it. Backhops: "Backhops" are the term I use for jumping, immediately air turning, and backdashing. The notation for this is 9 > A+C > 6 quickly and is most often followed by j.A. This is VERY useful for Labrys, for a few reasons: - Can air block (by holding either direction!) to bait B+Ds - Can be cancelled into from 5A for pressure. - If spaced correctly, can be VERY a ambiguous cross up (even from a blocked 5A). - Can safe jump LOTS of stuff with BH j.A assuming you get a knockdown were you have time to perform it. - Leads to a pretty dumb mixup. Try this: 5A from ~half a char length away > BH > j.214A > OMC after first hit If blocked, you fastfall and can go for a (very quick) j.A, land and 2A, or just land and throw. On hit, land and combo into 5A or 5B > whatever. On FC in Red Axe, you can follow up with big damage. Try BH > j.214B (1 hit) > OMC > land > 5B > 5C > 2C > [b+D] loops. There may something more optimal, j.214A has okay prorate while j.214B is pretty good if you want to experiment. You can also use j.214B if ambiguously spaced, the extra float on j.214B will give you just enough momentum to cross over their axis and make it cross up. - Backhop cons: some characters can 2B to beat it, but if they start trying to get sassy with those, just cross up to make their 2B whiff, then punish. Don't try this on Liz though A few people can also B+D, but for most chars you can just not J.A and block > punish. Brutal Impact trap: Labrys has a neat gimmick where she can set up unblockable BI. Easiest way is: Corner charge or unblockable 5B > 5D > cancel into BI A as the first arrow hits > opponent lands, techs > 5DD as they're waking up. Blocking or jump blocking traps them in blockstun, causing BI to hit for full damage + combo (if you had 100 meter when you started and they don't have burst, GGs). If they get hit by a few arrows (backdashing, some B+Ds, etc), you'll combo into BI, prorating its damage, but still allowing for a small combo. You may have to play around with the timing of 5DD; if they're going to roll, time so an arrow hits them meaty. Most reversals they can try will just get autoguarded > they get hit by arrows > they eat BI. B+Ds are obviously characters specific: it works great on some, a few chars you need to adjust the 5DD timing, some are a no go (DO NOT try it on Yosuke since counter will blow you up). There are other ways to set this up, so maybe someone will find something better. I almost even got a couple midscreen ones to work. You can also attempt to reset into BI from combos like this one: 5AA > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi (hold) > 2A > 2B > BI A. The trick is to slightly delay the super cancel into BI A. Time if just as the Tsurugi hits them; if done correctly it will nail them right after Tsurugi releases them. It's possible to time it so it's roll-proof, but the window is tight (2 frames). Otherwise, beware of reversals that can cause a clash. Speaking of Tsurugi resets, Tsurugi > UB charge 5B is ALMOST airtight. If you land a Tsurugi in a combo that's already prorated to hell, it's an okay gimmick. Charge 2B is mostly worthless, but it has very high proration. Red axe: charge 2B > OMC > slight dash charge 5B > 236A > A or A+B followup > whatever. Big damage. The charge 2B can be a guaranteed punish in certain situations (for example, if you roll through a Bufudyne). Red axe: j.B > j.BB (just before you touch the ground) > charge 5B > whatever works. [b+D] can be used to punish bursts on reaction. During a ground combo, just immediately charge B+D when you see their burst startup. You'll reach full charge and land FC B+D as they're descending. Warning: if they're too high in the air when they burst, your B+D will duck under them and whiff, and you'll get beat up. Optimal green-to-red combo is 5AA > 214A+B > dash 5AAAA or dash 5A > 2B > sj.B > j.C > j.214B. Pretty sure everyone already knows this, but figured I'd mention it just in case. If you don't have the meter, it's possible through Tsurugi oki (assuming the don't block low, of course): sweep > Tsurugi > meaty sweep > 214B > Sword hit > 5AAAA. If they do block you, you can go sweep > Tsurugi > 214A (for overhead) > dash 5AA > 214A+B > 214A. Obviously, that one still requires 25sp though. j.214B can be used to beat some 2Bs since its extra float can suspend you just long enough for their 2B's active frames/head invincibility to run out. If I think of anything else, I'll add it later.
Setsuna Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 So now that P4A is in the Evo line up I guess I'll be finishing up unfinished business like those match up threads and maybe a thread for "tricks and gimmicks" with Labrys, if anyone has anything to contribute post in their respective match up threads and discussion here if you wish
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 9, 2013 Posted January 9, 2013 I can help out if you want it or need it. I just dont post here cuz i figured the labrys forums were completely dead lol. I know labrys dead on XBL I'll start adding junk around the weekend for the Match-ups section i guess
Tecta1Eastside Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Random Labrys Info Might be old/new/useless Random Green to Red Axe burst combo. Requires Burst and 85 SP. builds 15 SP Midscreen [J.A214<5a<2b<SJ<Jb<J.A214<OMB<2b<SJ<JB<J.214A<236236D] 5256dmg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVc-8UPNi3A Not optimized maybe?? yellow axe to red axe 5aa auto combo builds 31sp midscreen [5aa<5aa<5aa<5aaaa] 1717dmg yellow to red axe 5aa auto combo builds 29sp requires 21sp midscreen [5aa<5aa<5aaaa<236236d] 4394dmg Green to red axe burst combo builds 8sp Requires 92sp and Burst 5.8k [214a<OMC<2b<JB<JB<JD<J.214B<OMB<2B<SJ<JB<J.214A<236236D] http://youtu.be/hWmYYX-4-Fo?t=8m50s Random green to red axe burst combo builds 7sp Requires 93sp and Burst [J.214B<OMC on 2nd hit<5a<2b<jb<jb<JD<J.214B<OMB<2b<SJ<JB<J.214B<236236D] http://youtu.be/hWmYYX-4-Fo?t=9m41s Not optimized atm random green to red axe combo builds 8sp Requires 92sp and burst Midscreen 5255dmg [236a or 236b<6b<OMC<5a<2b<SJ<JB<JD<J.214b<OMB<2b<JB<J.214A<236236D] http://youtu.be/hWmYYX-4-Fo?t=9m24s If you land green axe FC 5b midscreen at a decent close range FC 5b<5c<2c<full charge DP<5aaaa or<5a<SJ<jb<jd<J.214b. will edit and add yellow axe version later Random Gimmick If you land a charged 5b midscreen and you dont have or dont wanna spend meter you can do charged 5b< 22d and back hop or walk back slowly. If done correctly they will have to block the spike on wake-up If your opponent moves around on their wake-up they will run into the spike. free combo you might have to play around with your movement to get it to work consistently Labrys corner oki gimmick If you land a charge 5b from 22a/22b etc in the corner you do 22a or 22b depending on the distance. you then either go for a safe jump 2a or grab or 214a or J.214b. even add IAD back turn safe jump 2a or etc will make it better add omc mix-ups to it. The spike should stop them from pressing buttons on wake-up at some point If they do mash dp's or whatever, bait whatever opponents moves accordingly another gimmick any 5aaa<A+B<22a or any 5aaa<A+B<D arrows you still have to bait whatever move they do they only have 4 options mash dp/super, jump or evade step or block guess right and trap them into the spike or corner do again until you feel ready to do higher damage from yellow or red axe If they block on wake-up then go for whatever mix-up If you cant open your opponent up then just go for damage You get a chance to keep your opponent in the corner and build pressure and axe meter on them. sadly you lose out on 1k+ guaranteed dmg and axe meter on higher yellow and red axe levels from the spike if they get trapped in it. worth doing if your most optimal combo with meter wont kill atm imo maybe I'll add more stuff later and edit anything that wrong. Protein bar and energy drink got me up until 6am est why I dont even have a reason to be up right now sadly Edited January 15, 2013 by Tecta1Eastside
MikelAL93 Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 P4U has been out for a while, and since then, I decided to make a thread solely for discussing and improving Labrys' wiki page since the other character forums have this kind of topic already. Post any ideas, suggestions, questions, or anything that can relate to the wiki in this thread. Labrys wiki page
Tecta1Eastside Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) The combo section needs work cuz its blank atm. I would add basic general combos on there. Anything more advanced they could ask in the combo section The combo theory needs more info cuz thats the most important part of Labrys imo. Things like using Ex Guillotine axe for a green to red axe combo could be added. Maybe add a meter manangement section Things like when to use a rapid cancel,CA or etc since that very important. If you use all your meter in the wrong situation you have a hard time closing out matches. The combo section thing being empty is the only thing really bothering me tbh. I know she's kind of a dead character so before you start updating lets see how many people even have a desire to have it updated at this point. Edited March 7, 2013 by Tecta1Eastside
Vvvv Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Really the wiki seems fine to me. It covers all of her systems and basics. The only thing I would add are highlighting the go to green to red axe combos. I'd say add combos themselves but Tari's youtube combo series is already there.
Setsuna Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Combo Section is blank because Tari had plans for an "advanced" combo thread and it was going to have a mix of both, before that could ever happened Persona entered the "RIP" status. Plus the videos he supplied kind of gave you most of the combos you needed to ever know. "Combo Theory" or combos to build up the Axe Gauge can be incorporated into the actual combos. I'm iffy about the "Meter Management" section, factors such as your current axe level, meter, position and such come into play. If you want to detail out an example for me I'll consider it.
Tecta1Eastside Posted March 8, 2013 Posted March 8, 2013 meh just leave it alone. If people have additional questions about the character we got a forum for it.
Arvoyea Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 So I finally got this game and really want to play as Labrys or Kanji, or at least try learning them properly. I really like her character, and her axe system is cool. So, what should I know for general game plans for her?
Setsuna Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 So I finally got this game and really want to play as Labrys or Kanji, or at least try learning them properly. I really like her character, and her axe system is cool. So, what should I know for general game plans for her? Switching characters before its too late Labrys is a fundamental character and is rewarded for keeping up your momentum via Red Axe. You want to be able to space out your opponent with her long normals such as 5A, 5B, 2B and of course j.B the best thing she has but just because she has these normals doesn't mean she gets in for free, shes a bit slower than the rest of the case and without reliable reversal options you'll have to depend on your own ability to block and make correct decisions especially against stuff like Yus 5D Oki and TOMOEEEEE. Game plan, GET RED AXE and make your opponent fear a touch of death.
Tecta1Eastside Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Your general gameplan will be to rushdown your opponent to build axe meter to the Red level. This is where she has the most combo options and damage. You wont be able to use your DP or Counter Assualt to get out of pressure. She has very high situational damage but bad defensive options since they are very slow. Your goal is to try to end the match as quick as possible with her 236236D super. You can also try to keep your axe meter as high as possible since it transfers over into each round. P4U Labrys Combo Tutorial http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Labrys_(P4Arena) Use the two above sources to build a foundation. The wiki also has introductory combo videos in it also. If you have anymore questions dont be afraid to ask. Edit: I type like an old person cuz Setsuna already posted before me lol
TransientFaith Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Labrys is a fundamental character and is rewarded for keeping up your momentum via Red Axe. Game plan, GET RED AXE and make your opponent fear a touch of death. Pretty much this. You want to be able to space out your opponent with her long normals such as 5A, 5B, 2B and of course j.B 5B is one of the silliest tools she has...it works as a super ghetto antiair with no reward, its slow so you're probably going to get hit out of it in neutral, reward is low unless you're in red axe or CH (where its super high). Add on to what you read from the above: Labrys is an easy enough character combo-wise that you can start learning some of the gimmicky damage combos early on (C super > OMB > 214B > D super, 100 meter one more cancel combos, etc etc). Fundamental links/chains would be like CH B+D > dash 5A, j.214A/B > D super, 22X chain > charge 5b, charge 2b, charge B+D. Secondary/useful links would be charge 5b > sweep, charge 5b > 236B, 2C > dash 5a or s.j > j.B. Go nuts and have fun Edited March 21, 2013 by TransientFaith
Tecta1Eastside Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Can anyone do these halfway consistently cuz I cant sadly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tue8oCXW8KQ&t=0m46s I'll make the 1st hit of the axe whiff but the timing seems iffy because I cant get the ground bounce to occur over 50% of the time.
Lythium Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 I can do it somewhat consistently. Though usually off of other stuff, I don't use her AoA very often. I find it's almost as if you have to hit a certain sweetspot on j.214B's hitbox with the hurtbox of the character that you're comboing, it's like you want the edges of the hitboxes to connect. I guess it's easier to explain if you watch the video that you linked to, Labrys hits Narukami with the utmost edge of the axe. I also find it's easier on some characters than others. I can do it on Liz just about every time, but on Narukami, probably just half the time.
Tari Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 It definitely seems to me to be a hitbox thing, as well. I don't mention that specifically in the video, though. In any case, I used to be able to do it fairly consistently, but I doubt I can do it as well nowadays. It doesn't come up that often in matches, either. As for 5B, it has its uses. Most notably, it's actually a reasonably decent oki tool if you space yourself correctly. Just have to be careful with it.
Tecta1Eastside Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I mention the j.214b ground bounce because about a month ago a found that i could do on yellow axe: midscreen 5a<2b<jBB<jump cancel<j.214B ground bounce<5aaaa for 2.8k. builds 40sp I cant land it enough to even optimize the combo. I cant do it 24/7 and I'm sad about it lol. Edit: Actually i'm getting better at it so if I optimize it i'll post it cuz i wanna do more dmg with yellow axe without meter 5a<2b<jBB<jump cancel<j.214B ground bounce<2b<j.B<jB<j.c<j.214b for 3k. 33sp gain I gotta have the axe set to default so the axe meter goes to red for the exact amount. I had it set on yellow axe Edited March 22, 2013 by Tecta1Eastside
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