Alpha to Omega Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Oooh, I'm gonna have to go over the short stories thread and see what I can dig. So is Jin's entire body placed in Susano'oh or just his soul? No idea, the summary wasn't really explicit and just says he decides to wear it.
mAc Chaos Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 So it could just be an Iron Man suit type thing too. But he survived like 100 years in the Boundary... so he can't be just a normal living person in the suit.
Vulcan422 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure it's Jin's soul inside the armor. Case in point: when Terumi donned the Susano'o armor he later forced himself out of it, and he was in his ghost form. Edited December 3, 2012 by Vulcan422
mAc Chaos Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Well, it could be possible that once their body is placed into it, it's combined in a way, Robo-cop style. So then even if they wanted to leave, they couldn't.
mAc Chaos Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Wait that would make ti weird if they tried to give it to Jin later because Hazama's body would still be rotting away in there. Unless they somehow scraped it out and then put Jin's body in there instead.
Alpha to Omega Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I'm pretty sure it's Jin soul inside the armor. Case in point: when Terumi donned the Susano'o armor he later forced himself out of it, and he was in his ghost form. Where exactly was that actually shown? IIRC it's only been stated that Terumi wore the Susano'o and eventually ripped himself out. I don't believe it was ever explicitly shown or stated that he was in his ghost form afterward.
mAc Chaos Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Well, we see him in ghost form hiding in Rachel's bushes in CT. How else did he become a ghost.
SolxBaiken Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Welcome to: Hakumen Anatomy 101 I really don't want to believe it's just his soul in there, it's just...I dunno weird...also back on the subject of Haku-Terumi, was the unit using Ookami at that point? What exactly did Terumi do as Hakumen before Jin? And were they the 5 Heroes before Terumi was strutting around as Kazuma?
mAc Chaos Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I like the concept. It makes it more tragic and awesome. Like, he's just an empty husk propelled forward solely by sheer willpower. He'll never live a normal life again and has to spend the rest of however long of an eternity he sticks around repenting for his sins. Then again it's not that different if it's just whatever remains of his mangled body.
SolxBaiken Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Yeah I'm not saying he has to be all healthy and right as rain inside, but I just want some organic form of his self to be within the suit. I like to think of him like a more crippled Dingo from ZoE2
kylehyde Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I'd like to know how Jin managed to transfer his soul onto the armor. I imagine Rachel must've done that since she's the one who gave it to him. I'm mostly conviced that there isn't a body in there, by the things people say and Rachel's lighting attack on Hakumen.
Moy_X7 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Yeah, the "Jin's body does NOT reside in the suit of armor, just his soul" seems to be the most plausible theory.
Alpha to Omega Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I'd like to know how Jin managed to transfer his soul onto the armor. I imagine Rachel must've done that since she's the one who gave it to him. I'm mostly conviced that there isn't a body in there, by the things people say and Rachel's lighting attack on Hakumen. Clavis gave it to him, not Rachel.
harmless kitten Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Yukianesa and Ookami require large amounts of seithr to function properly, so Hakumen probably discarded Yukianesa after he fell through the Cauldron. It wouldn't work outside of close combat with the Black Beast. Plus, the sword he uses in Phase 0 sure doesn't look like Yukianesa. To be frank, I doubt Mori and co. thought about this lol. Worst case scenario, Clavis or Rachel confiscated it to prevent a horrible time paradox. I'm wholly convinced that all Hakumen has of Jin is his soul, but it is portrayed a little ambiguously. Even if he does have Jin's body, he's definitely not whole. Just look at Hakumen's feet and legs. Hakumen's luscious locks are probably the Susano'o Unit's.
mAc Chaos Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) > Yukianesa and Ookami require large amounts of seithr to function properly, so Hakumen probably discarded Yukianesa after he fell through the Cauldron. It wouldn't work outside of close combat with the Black Beast. Wouldn't he have discarded Ookami too if that was the case. Edited December 3, 2012 by mAc Chaos
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I believe he was swordless for a point or used yukianesa when in combat, specifically against the Black beast. Jin's entire body was placed inside the Susano'o unit and probably over time his body because to vanish inside it, I mean he took off his mask in CT when he was facing off against his conviction. So now at this point there isn't much of Jin left, except for things like his face and what not. Also I believe the hair is actually Jin's. I wish they would honestly clarify this in CP. With regards to his sword issue, did any of the phase shifts clarify this?
harmless kitten Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) By 'wouldn't work outside of close combat with the Black Beast,' I mean prior to its defeat. After the Dark War, the Black Beast had released a ton of seithr, whereas before it seemed limited to the areas around Cauldrons or places the Black Beast frequented. After its defeat, seithr was very plentiful. In Phase 0, the sword he wields doesn't look like Yukianesa or Ookami. It's lacking the characteristic sheaths of either, and the hilt is totally different from Yukianesa's. But hell, I don't know. It could simply be an art flub, or they didn't put any thought into it. I think we're kind of overthinking it haha. edit: In the illustrations at least, Hakumen appears to wield Ookami in Phase Shift 2. It has the same hilt, and the pommel and crossguard match perfectly. Edited December 3, 2012 by harmless kitten
SolxBaiken Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 To be frank, I doubt Mori and co. thought about this lol I wonder about this alot in modern Japanese storytelling lol I think the main problem comes with loltime, it rarely goes well, especially the longer your story goes and the more you mess with past events.
Anfingrimm Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I'm curious about something: when Terumi was occupying the Susano'o armour, did it have the same appearance as when Jin wears it, or is its form malleable like the Azure Grimoire?
harmless kitten Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I wonder about this alot in modern Japanese storytelling lol I think the main problem comes with loltime, it rarely goes well, especially the longer your story goes and the more you mess with past events. Well, I don't think it's a problem unique to modern Japanese storytelling. It's something any complex story will struggle with. Maybe there's something about modern Japanese storytelling that exaggerates the problem, but I wouldn't know. Plenty of franchises have continuity snarls worse than BB's. All it takes is a few bored and/or dedicated fans with enough time on their hands to pick apart a series and fanwank something. (You should see the explanations for stuff in the Evangelion fandom, my god.) If it's a huge enough issue, they could always retcon things. It's been done in BB before. Technically, I don't think Jin is seen with Yukianesa after he falls through the Cauldron. If you wanted to go with the simplest explanation, just say he lost his grip on it while falling. @Anfingrimm: Afaik it's never mentioned. The Azure Grimoire is kind of a special case anyway.
Surf Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Yea the whole Terumi-Susanoo deal is just extremely vague. I mean, we're even questioning wither Jins body is in the suit or not. The thing about BB that bothers me greatly is a lot of the finer details are never really confirmed. Just clues and hints going about. Which makes people assume. And you know where assuming brings us. The biggest question for me personally is why was Terumi ever in the Susanoo suit to begin with. Why would he need to be in the suit anyways. To fight? Maybe to have a durable body to withstand seither to perform his experiments to create the Black Beast? I dunno. The huge issue with BB is there's no real laid out timeline. We know in PS1 Terumi needed Kazama's body for his new vessel and such. So, can it be possible he was already in his Ghost form by then. And if so, then that would also mean this is after he forcefully ripped himself out the Susanoo Unit. Something that I think was mentioned was impossible. Once you put that thing on your hoofing it for life, is what I think was mentioned in CT's story. So he's a ghost and has Relius create Kazama for his vessel. He becomes Hazama and starts wrecking shit until Jubei and Valk seal him. Nine sets him free and lays Mind Eater on him so he can help get rid of the Black Beast. I think Jin-Hakumen happened after Hazama was born but before Nine released Terumi again. Mori needs to take Storytelling 101.
Tokkan Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Terumi was in the Susano'o Unit because Terumi IS Susano'o. And yes, this does mean his goal is to kill his sister, the Master Unit.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Terumi was in the Susano'o Unit because Terumi IS Susano'o. o_O Could you please go into detail?
Surf Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Terumi was in the Susano'o Unit because Terumi IS Susano'o. And yes, this does mean his goal is to kill his sister, the Master Unit. Wut. Why. When
Chaoschao222 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Terumi was in the Susano'o Unit because Terumi IS Susano'o. And yes, this does mean his goal is to kill his sister, the Master Unit. Wait what the balls?
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