harmless kitten Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks for killing my hype to play the game bro -__- Lol well if you do play it, play it expecting a really bad or cheesy movie with fun gameplay. I enjoyed it, but Final Fantasy XIII-2 is pretty dumb, and not even in a vaguely self-aware dumb like BB. Even dumber than the original XIII (which I enjoyed enough to Platinum). I had a lot of fun with the monster system at least. EDIT: I wonder what was Tsubaki's weapon or method of combat during the "original" timeline or whatever. She probably had a generic armagus, much like Tsubaki now before she released Izayoi. She was Jin's ministerial secretary so she probably didn't see too much fighting anyway. GG was good until it got to Overture. Then it was just like ??? But still, you can tell that it wasn't planned out in quite the same fashion and character plots are different... There's not much of an overarching backbone for the story like there is in BB. Of course, I'm sure BB will eventually get to that point once the quadrilogy finishes and it's a struggle to keep things going for the characters.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 @harmless I actually found Overture, storywise at least was a step in the right direction. Yes terms weren't fully explained, but at least you could clearly see whose shaping up to be the antagonists. I really loved Overture, and Accent Core wise I loved hwo the stories (for Ky Sol and Dizzy) fluently led to what starts Overture. GG will be even more godlike when it revives itself anyways. But yes, back on track, I'm curious to see who this CT novel pans. Anything involving Hakumen, or my mains period spike my curiosity. Reminds me why I bother to even play them so much.
harmless kitten Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Oh, Overture was decent in its own right, but it just doesn't feel like it belonged. It feels like a completely different game with transplanted GG characters. It might have even been a different game at first but was converted into a GG game; the gameplay is certainly different enough. It looks just like a novelization of WoF or a timeline similar to that one.
Surf Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Yea what Harmless said. It probably won't focus on anyone in particular, just recap what happens in the WoF timeline. Will probably end when Ragna and Nu become the Black Beast
NovaFortuna Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) I have no idea what you people are talking about, i think he is a genius. Blazblue is like my favorite story of ever, no movie or manga can top it for me. I kind of agree with you. I also like the story a lot. I wouldn't say genius, and the BB story is flawed, but it has some really good material, some pretty nice ideas and how most details about the whole world in it are thought out really shows that Mori did go through a lot to put something together. I don't consider Mori brilliant, but I don't see him as a fool on the matter either. But I insist, it's the use of some of those ideas that puts the overall down at times, say how convoluted is the whole order of events, the lack of proper exposition of many plot relevant elements and the overuse of "the character knows, but he won't let the audience know", which is nice for building up mystery and all, but now it just prevents us from knowing what's going on. Though this can work on the favor of the story at times. I am pretty sure Jin was intended to be Ragna's worthy rival and Hakumen the kind of "oh shit!" kind of enemy for him, yet the way things were played Jin is little more than a Team Rocket for Ragna, but Hakumen became a full fledged rival which indeed has a rather epic conflict with him. At least it feels like that for me. Edited January 10, 2013 by NovaFortuna
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Ya know, I kind of wonder where the story will go really..I mean is it gonna drag on forever, or actually end and then think of a new plot?
harmless kitten Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Hmm, I don't think Hakumen is so much as a rival for Ragna as something to overcome. A sort of cross between fated archenemy and doom, as Hakumen probably isn't going to get any stronger and has little room for growth while Ragna does. Jin is still closer to rival status, but due to Hakumen being a more imposing (and implacable) threat he's often eclipsed by Hakumen. Mori said that the series story will end will probably end with the next game. After that, the story will probably become fragmented and more focused on different character threads (much like in GG) than a major plot that ties everyone together. If they don't just go back to GG anyway.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Ya know, I kind of wonder where the story will go really..I mean is it gonna drag on forever No doubt. or actually end and then think of a new plot? lol.
Agni Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Ya know, I kind of wonder where the story will go really..I mean is it gonna drag on forever, or actually end and then think of a new plot? It's going to do the latter, but it should do the former. Wrap this current storyline up and then introduce some new threat to the world. On the other hand, seeing what crazy plot twist Mori will pull out of his ass in order to keep dragging out this plotline could be interesting. God, Blazblue's story is simultaneously awesome and so bad it's good. It was a tournament Testament put together to free Justice, yes. Anyway, you guys just lack anime experience. I, on the other hand, have been exposed to so much, BB's plot makes perfect sense to me. Just up your anime levels and you will understand everything~ I also agree with this. Blazblue is a Chuunibyou shounen anime in game form. After a while you just get used to this kind of plot-telling.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Hmm, I don't think Hakumen is so much as a rival for Ragna as something to overcome. A sort of cross between fated archenemy and doom, as Hakumen probably isn't going to get any stronger and has little room for growth while Ragna does. Jin is still closer to rival status, but due to Hakumen being a more imposing (and implacable) threat he's often eclipsed by Hakumen. Isn't that kind of the definition of a rival, Someone who the protagonist must overcome? I mean if you look at it, part of Ragna & Hakumen's rivalry is the former trying to catch up with the latter; Hakumen completely outclassed Ragna previously and now they're more or less on equal terms and each time they fight they constantly acknowledge the other's strength. Both of them have pretty close ties to the plot and with one of the main villains(Ragna for how much Hazama screwed up his life, and Hakumen for how Hazama betrayed their group and banished him to the boundary). Jin by comparison isn't so much a threat, but more of a nuisance. Ragna more or less just swats him aside whenever they fought, and doesn't really have any beef with him anymore outside of Jin just wanting to kill him. When Ragna says he'll let Jin be the one to kill him, it sounds more like a brother who reluctantly wants to spend time with his annoying sibling...which is exactly the situation. It's not that Jin is a terrible rival, it's just that Hakumen plays the role a lot better because the story takes him a lot more seriously as a threat to Ragna, than it does for Jin. That's my two cents anyway. No doubt. lol. I'd laugh if the latter of what I said actually happens...like wut. Like seriously, four games just seems like two short to end this series on, at least five or six, but at the same time I don't want it to drag on more than it needs to.
Surf Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Isn't that kind of the definition of a rival, Someone who the protagonist must overcome? Well yea but, rivals are usually growing together. Like Harmless said Hakumen really isn't going to become much stronger than he is now. But then again... The rivarly between Ky and Sol is somewhat like that as well, Ky will never really win if Sol was serious. Ah, I dunno. I'd say their rivals but Jin is a better compliment to Ragna. Because he is becoming stronger just as Ragna is.
Agni Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 A rival's not really that. They're more a character who opposes the protagonist (usually in a more personal way) but isn't the antagonist. They're also quite often foils--I'm not sure if Hakumen and Ragna are really foils, though.
harmless kitten Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 One of the reasons I don't regard it as a rivalry because neither of them seem to consider it as such. Hakumen outright terrifies Ragna in CT, and Ragna only wins by the skin of his teeth. Plus, I think it'd be a more substantial rivalry if Hakumen became stronger too in order to destroy Ragna--which doesn't happen. It's Jin that takes up that mantle. Jin is growing along with Ragna (both in character development and strength), faster than him even, but Hakumen is static. Of course, until CS Ragna didn't seem to regard Jin as much of a rival either. If he ever loses, it's only because he went easy on Jin. Jin might not be a perfect rival (although he may be shaping up to be one for CP?), but I just don't think Hakumen fits that role either. I thought Ragna sounded relatively sincere when he told Jin that, but I guess this depends on which language you're listening in? I listen with JP voices on and he sounded almost wistful in that instance. It didn't sound like an older brother annoyed at giving up time for his sibling, although I think he wasn't telling the truth (mainly because I can't imagine Ragna would give up that easily without a fight when he claws and fights against his destiny no matter how hopeless).
Surf Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Yea when Ragna told Jin that he'd be his greatest enemy when he is in control of his powers (and Jin had an orgasm) I think he was sincere with it. But that also raises another question. If Jin wasn't so psycho and hell bent on "killing" Ragna, then would Ragna attack Jin everytime he saw him. In CT and the begininng of CS most likely, but now? I don't think as much. Even in their intro battle in CP Ragna is basically like "Again Jin?" Ragna may never forgive Jin for what happened, but he also knows none of it would have happened if it weren't for Terumi and Yukianesa corrupting him. Their rivalry is weird to say the least.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I think it would be a lot more substantial if more focus was put on Ragna & Jin rather than Ragna & Hakumen, I just don't feel the story focuses enough on their conflict as much as it does with Ragna's other adversaries; I mean with Hazama it's justifiable considering he's the main antagonist towards Ragna, and Ragna hates him more than anyone else, but I feel so much focus has gone towards the likes of Hakumen and hell Azreal even, that it just takes away from Jin. Hell the primary reason Jin became stronger wasn't so much to beat Ragna, but to save Tsubaki. Hopefully CP can change this and give more substance to the two because the rivalry feels more or less one-sided on Jin's behalf. I dunno, it probably depends on language like you said, but Ragna almost sounds like he doesn't want to fight Jin.
Surf Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Hell the primary reason Jin became stronger wasn't so much to beat Ragna, but to save Tsubaki. Well you somewhat answered your own statement. Ragna is on the backburner in Jin's mind for now. It's all about saving Tsubaki right now.
harmless kitten Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Well aside from CT, he really doesn't want to fight Jin, and that was a special case born from 7 long years of pent up rage, aggression, trauma, and despair. Once he gets the bulk of his anger out on Jin and Terumi appears on the picture, Jin is neatly put aside. But Ragna really doesn't care about fighting anyone except Terumi. Most of his battles are when people get in his way and won't move, or if they deliberately antagonize him (such as Rachel). It is a rather tenuous rivalry, but it's the closest one BB has for Ragna. Wait, are you talking about when Ragna is goading Jin in Jin's story, or when he's talking to a passed out Jin? In the latter, he says that he will fight but if that time comes he will fight Jin and Jin will manage to kill him. He sounds a mixture of wistful and resigned here, but not really annoyed (at least in the JP ver). Ragna: Oh god, what were you thinking, challenging me with wounds like that? You idiot, I can't go all out on you in this condition. Jin: /collapse. Brother... Ragna: You were such a crybaby as a kid, but now you've grown up... Jin, you're right... I probably am the bane of this world. But... even if I knew for cetain, I still couldn't blindly accept my fate. I will not simply succumb to what others claim is my destiny. I fight for control over my own life. And I will win. But if the time comes... If it comes, it'll be you who kills me. So, should the time come, don't act as a mindless "antibody." If you are to kill me, do so as my little brother, with your own mind and will... Note that Ragna is pretty much talking to himself. Jin certainly can't hear him.
harmless kitten Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 CS. It's only in CS that they can have a rational conversation for once, in CT Ragna is mostly like "I'll never forgive you!" or "Idiot/Bastard!" or "JIN!!" haha.
Surf Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Well what I meant is after Jin leaves Rachels place and after Valk does that procedure on him and he see's Ragna but Yukianesa isn't listening to him. Isn't the part you just quoted in his arcade mode and not story. Because in story I remember Ragna telling Jin to stop being a dumbass and having that Nox control him like a puppet
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Well aside from CT, he really doesn't want to fight Jin, and that was a special case born from 7 long years of pent up rage, aggression, trauma, and despair. Once he gets the bulk of his anger out on Jin and Terumi appears on the picture, Jin is neatly put aside. But Ragna really doesn't care about fighting anyone except Terumi. Most of his battles are when people get in his way and won't move, or if they deliberately antagonize him (such as Rachel). It is a rather tenuous rivalry, but it's the closest one BB has for Ragna. Wait, are you talking about when Ragna is goading Jin in Jin's story, or when he's talking to a passed out Jin? In the latter, he says that he will fight but if that time comes he will fight Jin and Jin will manage to kill him. He sounds a mixture of wistful and resigned here, but not really annoyed (at least in the JP ver). Note that Ragna is pretty much talking to himself. Jin certainly can't hear him. That's what I was referring to. I dunno, it seems odd for Ragna to fight so hard against his supposed destiny but then just resign himself to the fact that Jin has to kill him.
harmless kitten Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Well what I meant is after Jin leaves Rachels place and after Valk does that procedure on him and he see's Ragna but Yukianesa isn't listening to him. Isn't the part you just quoted in his arcade mode and not story. Because in story I remember Ragna telling Jin to stop being a dumbass and having that Nox control him like a puppet You're thinking of Jin's story. The part I'm talking about happens in Ragna's story. @BlackYakuzu94: I think that he's saying "I will fight, but in case destiny is inescapable you'll be the one to kill me." He does say IF, even if it's right after he boasts that no way is he gonna lose.
NovaFortuna Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) That's gotta be the sole scene where they have an actually meaning relationship. I listed this rivalry as something wasted in my post not because it's by itself a poor idea, but rather a good idea poorly executed. Jin was until the end of CS a completely wasted character, Hakumen not only had all the hype to get a good conflict with Ragna but also had story relevance. Jin only had for most part chasing down Ragna and when the moment came, he was swatted aside and not mentioned again. You could completely remove Jin from Ragna's story and nothing changes. Doesn't help Mori pits their fights at the worst possible moments, when Ragna is in a rush to do something else, the abysmal difference in power that just prevents Ragna from taking Jin seriously and that most of Jin's story have been completely unexplored or just set up without paid off (Tsubaki's rescue aside, since that worked out) to possibly make Jin significant in some way to Ragna's objectives. Jin makes no difference in Ragna's story, even if his own depends on chasing down his big brother. Also, Hakumen may not become stronger per se, but he may recover more of his lost power, which works the same as becoming stronger. Ragna's side of this "rivalry" is at worst considering Jin a maggot and avoiding him because he is a pest and at best seeing his kid brother completely misguided and deluded in life so he looks to set him in the right path, but he never actually takes him as a rival or a threat. And as pointed out by BlackYakuzu94, Jin didn't progress until they touched Tsubaki, which is his first involvement with the actual plot, ironically. And at that, the antagonism he had with evil Tsubaki while it lasted, was not a rivalry, but it did make a much more interesting thing given how both did add something and were willing to fight for several reasons. That's what I think at least Edited January 11, 2013 by NovaFortuna
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Well like I said, hopefully they can give the conflict between Ragna & Jin a bit more substance so it doesn't come off as so....tenuous as harmless said, specifically give Jin a legit reason for wanting to fight him outside of "NII-SAAAAN", LET'S MAKE LOVE". We all know Ragna wants to beat Hazama above anyone else, but he has a lot of bad blood with a lot of other characters as well.
Surf Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I personally, think that as the games progress the Jin Ragna feud will subside. Its already a fraction of what it used to be mainly because of all the things mentioned before. And I think the main reason is Tsubaki. I'm really looking forward to Tsubaki and Jin's roles in the CP story more than any other character. Because I want to witness how they will grow this time around. I mean the rivalry may still exist but I think when everything is revealed and the purpose of why Saya was kidnapped, why Yukianesa was given to Jin, etc etc. Their incentive for fighting may disappear. Especially if they end up "saving" Saya at the end of the series, I doubt she'll stand by and watch her brothers kill each other. Nova is right in saying that the rivalry is just poorly executed, but warranted to a degree. I just really really wish Jin wasn't still a dumbass when he see's Ragna in CP. I still dont understand Mori's decision on making him do that. It's like having the character take one step forward to becoming better, than two steps back. Btw, how is the relationship between Hakumen and Bloodedge if anyone knows. I mean, Hakumen knew he was Ragna right
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