Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 LET ME HEAR YOU SING Hakumen: "I'M A LITTLE TEAPOT, SHORT AND STOUT...."
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj3HOdF0hc4#t=6m04s yo wtf .....wut..... Hakumen says in CT that that's just a lie Carl tells himself to justify his actions. Apparently Nirvana is fueled by the killing intent of the owner. So he's just nuts already. That's what I meant when I said Hakumen already called him out for being evil and Relius-like in CT. Let me find the clip if it didn't get taken down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj3HOdF0hc4#t=0m26s He sees right through that punk. Why does Hakumen sound so much calmer here than in CS, in CS he has constant growl in his voice yet in CT he sounds so much more composed.
mAc Chaos Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Everything is better in CT. Also he gets pretty intense when he's talking about Ragna or Nu in CT too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwnbnjByHo Edited January 14, 2013 by mAc Chaos
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Everything is better in CT. Also he gets pretty intense when he's talking about Ragna or Nu in CT too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwnbnjByHo "INFERNO DIVIDAAAAAAAAAAH!" (or rather, "INBIRUNO DIBAIDAAA!!") sounds so much better in CT. Most sounds sounded better. Not all of em though. Thankfully Haku-men goes back to his old voicestyle in CP as well. Edited January 14, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj3HOdF0hc4#t=6m04s yo wtf Hakumen says in CT that that's just a lie Carl tells himself to justify his actions. Apparently Nirvana is Hope the dub follows the same suite...especially after how they fucking up Hakumen's voice.
mAc Chaos Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) "Ah yes, now that is fear Ragna the Bloodedge... the creature that sleeps within you can sense my power, and it is afraid." That totally sounds like Ragna is the reincarnated Black Beast rather than just having the Azure Grimoire be it. Naruto style :3 It also makes more sense from the perspective of all of these things being him and Jin's destiny rather than just him slapping a fake arm on and calling it a day. Too bad the game seems to have retconned it later. Also if it's really just the Azure, then all you have to do is cut off his arm. Why such a focus on killing Ragna himself specifically. ALSO ALSO: supposedly Jin cut off Ragna's arm because Terumi told him how Ragna was destined to become the Black Beast. If it was because he was always the Black Beast that makes sense, but if it's just because he has to attach the arm later... well, none of that would have ever happened if Jin hadn't cut his arm off in the first place! In other words, if Jin never did anything he would have never become the Black Beast, etc. I guess that's just Terumi trolling again. Although you have to wonder why Jin would even listen to him in the first place. Edited January 14, 2013 by mAc Chaos
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Because Jin was like what, ten years old? Anyway, I'm pretty sure Ragna's arm is some sort of life line, if he loses it, he dies given that his arm never properly healed. That, and he doesn't seem to be in danger of the Azure taking him over ever since attaining the Idea Engine.
harmless kitten Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 The thing looks like it's taken over all the flesh up to Ragna's shoulder even though Ragna's arm was only cut off at halfway through his upper arm, i.e. it's spreading (compare the pics of Ragna that Mori has drawn to the image of Ragna as a young man). I don't think it's a lifeline, but he'd be in major danger of dying without immediate medical attention. I think that Ragna has an innately special connection with the Azure Grimoire that's part destiny, part something else. Unfortunately, this connection also makes him a perfect vessel for becoming the Black Beast.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Although you have to wonder why Jin would even listen to him in the first place. Candy.
Zangelin Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I thought it was implied that Terumi possesed Jin for that bit.
Rishtopher Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I thought it was implied that Terumi possesed Jin for that bit. I thought Jin told Rags that he wasn't under control though? Terumi screwed up his memories though, so maybe he's wrong? From what I remember, he'd forgotten a lot about what happened in Ikaruga.
Nemesis Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 "Ah yes, now that is fear Ragna the Bloodedge... the creature that sleeps within you can sense my power, and it is afraid." That totally sounds like Ragna is the reincarnated Black Beast rather than just having the Azure Grimoire be it. Naruto style :3 It also makes more sense from the perspective of all of these things being him and Jin's destiny rather than just him slapping a fake arm on and calling it a day. Too bad the game seems to have retconned it later. Also if it's really just the Azure, then all you have to do is cut off his arm. Why such a focus on killing Ragna himself specifically. ALSO ALSO: supposedly Jin cut off Ragna's arm because Terumi told him how Ragna was destined to become the Black Beast. If it was because he was always the Black Beast that makes sense, but if it's just because he has to attach the arm later... well, none of that would have ever happened if Jin hadn't cut his arm off in the first place! In other words, if Jin never did anything he would have never become the Black Beast, etc. I guess that's just Terumi trolling again. Although you have to wonder why Jin would even listen to him in the first place. That would make sense too but didnt jubei alway nag ragna that the Azure wasnt "his own power" etc?
NovaFortuna Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) This is kind of silly to ask but: There is something I never quite got about Rags and the Black Beast. At first I thought he indeed was the Black Beast reincarnated as his moveset is dark based, parts of the Black Beast appear in his attacks, etc. Then we see the Black Beast is Ragna's Azure with Nu's Azure fusing or something, and Rags is thrown Azureless to another place. Then Ragna is eaten and becomes part of the Black Beast again or something, and also his Azure alone can create a Black Beast on CS. Sooo...how does Ragna the Black Beast works again? If anyone with an Azure can become a Black Beast why is Ragna alone called Dark One? And if darkness comes from the Azure and not the Black Beast itself why only Rags has that element? Is all that related to his own Azure? Kinda seems despite being a prototype or imprefect it's the most unique one. Edited January 14, 2013 by NovaFortuna
YoYoCheese Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 The way I understand it is that Ragna and Nu are halves of the Black Beast with Nu being the Beast's mind \ soul and Ragna (or at least his Azure) being the body. I think that there is something special about Ragna that means only he can use his half of the Azure Grimoire like he can, but I don't think it's been specified as to what that is yet.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Something that occurred to me; for anyone whose played and/or watched Fate/Stay Night knows the relationship between Archer and Shriou mirrors that of Hakumen's and Jin's....so does that add to the theory that Hakumen may die in this game?
harmless kitten Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I thought it was implied that Terumi possesed Jin for that bit. It is. Or at least drove him to do it. I think that Ragna's existence itself is perceived as a threat, a tumor afflicting the world/reality to extend the whole pathogen/immune system analogy. Becoming the Black Beast is just how his destiny manifests itself. Even without Nu he's still in danger of becoming something like it, see his bad ending in CS although he's called a "heartless beast" by Hakumen (since Nu is said to have the heart of the Black Beast and Ragna the body). But I don't think his bad ending was supposed to happen, and when it goes berserk he says something along the lines of feeling like something within his arm burst and liquid sloshing within it. I think that the Azure Grimoire was simply damaged or strained in the fight with Rachel, and then Ragna loses his control of it. Does the CSSMC touch upon this? Possibly anyone may act as a host for a Black Beast but that doesn't mean they're a good one. Haku is like "this insect (Arakune) become as bad as the Black Beast? lol no it's pathetic in comparison" to Rachel. One part of the Black Beast is that it certainly wasn't a desirable outcome and is just a berserk Cauldron that doesn't know when to stop eating souls. I think that it's just an imperfect prototype. Terumi refined future Azure Grimoires to NOT be uncontrollable monsters. The darkness is just seithr. The Black Beast's body (at least the dragon-headed shell and Ragna's attacks) is made up of seithr. It's not really darkness so much as solidified, soul-draining, dark seithr. @BlackYakuzu94: no
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Something that occurred to me; for anyone whose played and/or watched Fate/Stay Night knows the relationship between Archer and Shriou mirrors that of Hakumen's and Jin's....so does that add to the theory that Hakumen may die in this game? No. Because I don't want Hakumen associated with that show in any way. Fate/Zero is fine but I try to avoid thinking about SN as much as possible. Hakumen will die purely because he is the most appropriate character to do so. I believe his death he will accomplish something that will allow the good guys to win.
Ehecatl Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 The sad thing is, no matter how much he tries to deny it, Carl is becoming just like his father. The boy is essentially a sociopath in his pursuit of Relius and how he has literally no problem killing his childhood friends to get info, while still being eerily polite. And he has the sense of fashion as well. He certainly pushes the envelope and may be becoming a sociopath, but I don't think he's quite there yet. Antisocial? Absolutely in the extreme. Maybe even some disassociative personality disorder. But he's still capable of empathy, in regards to what happened to his sister and mother and genuinely cares for Litchi and Bang, even if he wishes he didn't. Honestly, I feel his development could go either way but probably will go toward him gaining a more... Healthy perspective. Litchi and Bang aren't just nice people. They're the only adults in recent years he's felt he could trust, and role models he at least hopes he can aspire to be. His ending in CS ends on this note. And he may well not become as his father because of them. But his development is far from over in that regard. Needless to say, Relius's involvement isn't good for him on any level.
Ehecatl Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I don't think Hakumen knew who Bloodedge was given his conversation with Jubei at the start of his story in CS. He meerly acknowledges that who ever he was he must've been a great warrior. He knows. Funny thing about Calamity Trigger -- go back and play it after Continuum Shift. It'll blow your mind with how much was actually forshadowed and no one picked up on it. For instance, everything that had to do with observers, Ragna not "thinking the power of the azure grimoire s own", etc. A lot of this was subtly foreshadowed. And then we have this. Lose to Hakumen in Ragna's story and this is one possibe thing Hakumen says at the end. "Whatever power you may possess will wither and die before my blade. This is your fate, Bloodedge. You would do well to accept it." Note that he doesn't say "Ragna the Bloodedge" or "Dark One", just "Bloodedge". Then there's Hakumen telling Jubei " I understand. I understand far more than you know" when Jubei apologizes for getting worked up over his "friend's" death. Its ambiguous and can have multiple meanings, but yeah.
harmless kitten Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 He knows. Funny thing about Calamity Trigger -- go back and play it after Continuum Shift. It'll blow your mind with how much was actually forshadowed and no one picked up on it. For instance, everything that had to do with observers, Ragna not "thinking the power of the azure grimoire s own", etc. A lot of this was subtly foreshadowed. And then we have this. Lose to Hakumen in Ragna's story and this is one possibe thing Hakumen says at the end. "Whatever power you may possess will wither and die before my blade. This is your fate, Bloodedge. You would do well to accept it." Note that he doesn't say "Ragna the Bloodedge" or "Dark One", just "Bloodedge". Then there's Hakumen telling Jubei " I understand. I understand far more than you know" when Jubei apologizes for getting worked up over his "friend's" death. Its ambiguous and can have multiple meanings, but yeah. I'm all for Hakumen knowing all along (as soon as he found out the name from Jubei or Celica he'd probably figure out pretty quickly), but this piece of evidence doesn't really count. In that piece of text, he never calls Ragna just Bloodedge in the Japanese version. It looks like it's only present in the English.
Tong Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Relius actually reffers to Ragna as "Bloodedge".
Tokkan Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Relius actually reffers to Ragna as "Bloodedge". Yeah, but only in Japanese.
Ehecatl Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I'm all for Hakumen knowing all along (as soon as he found out the name from Jubei or Celica he'd probably figure out pretty quickly), but this piece of evidence doesn't really count. In that piece of text, he never calls Ragna just Bloodedge in the Japanese version. It looks like it's only present in the English. Oh so you know the quote which I spoke of then. Lol then it's quite an ironic circumstance if so. Worth a shot I suppose. Still, been playing through Calamity Trigger a lot lately and was pleasantly surprised at a lot of the foreshadowing. Gives me confidence that Mori actually had this plot thought out and wasn't just pulling it out of his ass as he went along. Refreshing all things considering. As a rule, I tend to despise sequelized story-telling. This is about the only game I'll break my one rule on that.
mitsuyoshi Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I'm all for Hakumen knowing all along (as soon as he found out the name from Jubei or Celica he'd probably figure out pretty quickly), but this piece of evidence doesn't really count. In that piece of text, he never calls Ragna just Bloodedge in the Japanese version. It looks like it's only present in the English. Nope,i doubt it,because Jubei never tell Hakumen the name of his friend and when he talk with Hakumen about "bloodedge" he's not referring him with his name or his title and if Hakumen knowing it all along he will not be surprise when Jubei defending his attack to protect Ragna.
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