[CP] Amane Nishiki Gameplay Discussion

[DerQ]

I'm not super enthusiastic about the changes to Amane. Hariken charge time helps certain match-ups greatly but overall he's the same as before. He's at least more viable because quite a few of his shit match-ups got equalized.

Can I wear the leader badge for the 1.1 cynical Amane club?

I just realized that Amane can one-shot a blocking Nu.  Sure, you need a level 3 drill, overdrive, and 100 heat, AND the opponent's barrier gauge needs to be empty but by god can he do it.

Yay, something that could in theory happen but never will does indeed EXISTS

[Eshi]

Can I wear the leader badge for the 1.1 cynical Amane club?

 

I've actually been playing more Bullet than I have been Amane. Are you gonna top that? =P

[DerQ]

After building some frustration with BB, I go to meetups to avoid playing. I'm going to Toronto this weekend for a tournament and I'm more hype to go to Popeyes than play fighting games wwwwwwwwwwwww

[Eshi]

After building some frustration with BB, I go to meetups to avoid playing. I'm going to Toronto this weekend for a tournament and I'm more hype to go to Popeyes than play fighting games wwwwwwwwwwwww

your scumbaggery is unmatched. =(((((

[ChaChaSan]

Are there any character specifics for Amane's combos?

 

I've been practicing everything on Azrael and don't want to find out the hard way during a match.

 

Also, any tips on doing 632146D > Rapid > dash > fab hops > 6D? I never even come close to doing it, but I can do all his other combos. That 6D is hellish.

 

Edit: Finally found out how to do 632146D from the very edge of the screen. I couldn't get 66 > 236a > 236a > 66 > 236a > 236a > 6D to work even one time just practicing the 632146D > rapid > 6D part on its own, but I figured out through trying things that 632146D > RC > 66 > 236B > 236B > air dash > ground dash > 6D works very easily. I was surprisingly able to do it 3 times in a row.

[Eshi]

I have always had major troubles landing that combo. I'll do your notation and see if I can finally do it! There's a lot of character specific things but I can't remember a lot, I've written out inconsistent combos entirely from my muscle memory. For example, 236C > Rapid Cancel > 2C doesn't work on some characters (Kagura) so I always do 236C > 5C.

[Eshi]

1.10 thoughts: I still think Jin vs. Amane is 7-3. In fact I think it's the only 7-3 match-up now, Kokonoe and Taokaka are a lot easier to handle. The long sets of Arukemi against Tsujikawa really helped me get a grip on the Koko match-up!

Are there any character specifics for Amane's combos?

 

I've been practicing everything on Azrael and don't want to find out the hard way during a match.

 

Also, any tips on doing 632146D > Rapid > dash > fab hops > 6D? I never even come close to doing it, but I can do all his other combos. That 6D is hellish.

 

Edit: Finally found out how to do 632146D from the very edge of the screen. I couldn't get 66 > 236a > 236a > 66 > 236a > 236a > 6D to work even one time just practicing the 632146D > rapid > 6D part on its own, but I figured out through trying things that 632146D > RC > 66 > 236B > 236B > air dash > ground dash > 6D works very easily. I was surprisingly able to do it 3 times in a row.

I practiced this last night and I FINALLY got it to work for the first time ever! B Zettou is definitely the way to go.

[Cynthetik]

I feel like Bang could also a 7-3 match-up as well. His ability to disrespect Amane is crazy! Also, what is everyone's thoughts on the Rachel match up?

[DerQ]

Bang's not too annoying, maybe it's because I get away with some stuff locally, but I don't think it's 7-3.

Being able to get drill level 3 in trade of Rachel setting up stuff might be really nice, I think she's definitely more rewarded to stay close enough to Amane and that's probably a desired range for him as well. Despite that, wind makes moving in the air a bit unstable as you keep wind momentum even after wind is gone and Rachel is still as stable as she was in 1.0. The problems still exists. I know she can wind tech out of drills, but I don't play Rachel enough to have it happened to me.

[Xenozip]

I just ran a bit more tests on the 6B gimmick I hadn't thought of during the fiddling yesterday.

 -snip-

Could you please elaborate on this? I didn't see the old Jiro post you were referring to, so I'm curious what the whole sequence is.

[DerQ]

Sequence is corner Combo > 2nd gekiren > 5B/2B > 6B.

 

You need the 2nd Gekiren so that when you hit them after the 2nd gekiren, they will tech fast enough for 5B > 6B to connect. Otherwise 6B whiffs while they'll tech or it'll actually combo

[Xenozip]

Sequence is corner Combo > 2nd gekiren > 5B/2B > 6B.

 

You need the 2nd Gekiren so that when you hit them after the 2nd gekiren, they will tech fast enough for 5B > 6B to connect. Otherwise 6B whiffs while they'll tech or it'll actually combo

Ok, thank you.

 

Is it character specific? I'm trying this on Noel in training mode and it's not really working on her. I have it set to Aerial Roll forward, Emergency Roll enabled, Wake-up neutral,

 

2B 3C Raibu 5A 6A Gekiren 2B 6A Gekiren 5B(1) [6B] - she techs above the 6B

2A 2B 3C Raibu 5A 6A Gekiren 2B (reset)Gekiren 2B 6A Gekiren 5B(1/2) [6B] - she techs above the 6B

[DerQ]

Yes indeed it'll whiff if they tech in one direction. But unless they are:

1. holding to tech
2. Teching forward
3. Almost mashing the appropriate button to hit Amane from that distance

You should be safe and free to do something after 6B whiffs

 

It's not a miraculous setup or true oki by any means, but if an opponent is willing to do all of the three above on knockdown, it shouldn't be needed/worth it to use this setup no? 

[Xenozip]

Oh, I see. Ok, thank you. I thought there might be something I was missing or there was a specific trap for forward techs. Also. I randomly noticed that the Gekiren reset won't loop into itself on most characters, they can neutral tech after one loop, but it does seem to work on Tsubaki. So:

2A 2B 3C Raibu 5A 6A Gekiren [2B reset-Gekiren 2B 6A Gekiren]xN - doesn't seem like Tsubaki can reliably get out of it without burning meter, even if she neutral techs. But everyone else can just neutral tech if you try to do the reset more than once. Though I'm not sure what happens if Tsubaki chooses not to tech.

[DerQ]

Get out of what ?

 

2A 2B 3C Raibu 5A 6A Gekiren [2B reset

or double gekiren resets?

In any case, slightly delaying the tech timing can get you out of both. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by won't loop itself on some characters...

[Xenozip]

Yes, that's what I mean exactly, delaying the tech timing will get you out, but for Tsubaki it doesn't seem possible. With the case of Tsubaki she always gets grabbed by Gekiren unless she burns meter. I could be wrong though, sorry. I was testing with holding the tech and delaying the tech with a neutral tech and it always worked when I tested with her and no one else.

 

So, 2A 2B 3C Raibu 5A 6A Gekiren 2B (she techs) Gekiren (works) -- then 2B 6A Gekiren 2B reset-Gekiren 2B 6A Gekiren 2B reset-Gekiren etc etc -- Like you said; normally any character can get out of this but with Tsubaki there doesn't seem to be a meterless option to get out. Maybe I was timing it wrong but when I tried a delay neutral tech she still got grabbed by Gekiren. So her only option was to burn meter or maybe not tech (haven't tried not-teching).

[DerQ]

Ran quick test since I was very skeptical about this.

 

Gekiren > 2b > 6A > gekiren > 2b reset > gekiren does work. She can hold forward and tech to get out or delay the tech. If she no techs, this does... 4k. Dat damage.

 

So the hitstun decay in doing Gekiren > 2b > 6A > gekiren puts you exactly in that sweet spot for the reset to work since it hasn't been run down by a full combo. At least, that's how I'd explain it. For the fun part, I tried it against Ragna, it works too. I don't currently have time to run tests to see if this works with a lot of the cast. But, the rewards for this gamble are high! The opponent sees same attack combo on the screen, they hold to tech. Blown up. They delay the tech if they learn, that's a free 700 damage if you get a 3rd Gekiren. They take it and assume they're safe to tech after the second Same attack combo notice. The 6B setup/reset works from there.

 

Corner Gekiren reset > 2B > 6A > Gekiren (3.3k damage)

Add a 2B gekiren reset, it loops.

Add a 2B bluebeat gekiren, you now have 4k

Add a 2B/5B > 6B reset, Add 3.7k from the followup combo that puts you in the same reset situation

Decide to go for a j.2B to beat late tech, Add 3.2k instead

 

I know it doesn't work in a linear fashion, but the numbers are pretty right now :3

[DerQ]

j6D

[TD]

how does this character go about baiting dp's in the corner rom a 3c knockdown while still coverig tech options? does he have an option select after j2b or does he have to wing it? should I be using another form of knockdown for those dp characters? I only know of the safe 5d setup in the corner vs dp's and most other chars.

[DerQ]

Stay on the ground and go for 5D > Hariken A. Doesn't cover everything that's a reversal, but does most of the time. They can always rapid on the drill if they have 50 meter.

 

Otherwise, I'm not gonna be sure on this. I always figured j.2B > Dash > j.2B would cover rolls and allow safe jumps, but I've never had motivation to make my j.2B stable (AKA avoid the bounce up) and with delayed tech options, I figured it would just make it more of a pain. Sooooooo I never confirmed that assumption

[TD]

I'll try that In the morning, thanks. Hopefully it works.

J2b is pretty easy imo, but you use stick right. Must be hard to maneuver it so quickly in opposite directions consistently. The dpad on pad is noticeably smaller and can handle such a feat with ease. It may cause a blister, but that's a problem for another day

[Eshi]

I'll try that In the morning, thanks. Hopefully it works.

J2b is pretty easy imo, but you use stick right. Must be hard to maneuver it so quickly in opposite directions consistently. The dpad on pad is noticeably smaller and can handle such a feat with ease. It may cause a blister, but that's a problem for another day

It just takes practice to get used to the timing. I've gotten to the point that I can land j2B * 13 without even trying.

[Eshi]

I realized recently that my opinion on match-ups has changed quite a bit, mostly because of patch changes and partially because I'm less bad.

 

Major Advantage: Bullet, Kagura, Makoto, Tager

Minor Advantage: Arakune, Carl, Platinum

Even: Azrael, Hakumen, Hazama, Izayoi, Mu-12, Nu-13, Relius, Taokaka, Tsubaki, Valkenhyn

Minor Disadvantage: Bang, Jin, Noel, Rachel, Ragna, Terumi

Major Disadvantage: Kokonoe, Litchi

[mAc Chaos]

So you think Hakumen is a disadvantage still? What about just zoning him out?

[Eshi]

So you think Hakumen is a disadvantage still? What about just zoning him out?

Hakumen can't be zoned normally because it's easy to gain free meter or 4k damage with reaction counter. The best tactic is to run away since HK mobility is bad, gain meter from full screen with hariken's awesome buff and then drill his ass. Reacting to his approach attempts also nets quite a bit of damage. It's definitely easier than before, but I'm still skeptical because it's just really easy to make mistakes and Hakumen takes huge chunks of life off of mistakes. It depends on how I'm feeling that day :P

 

EDIT: in retrospect you're right, the match-up is pretty much equal now

Edited July 10, 2014 by Eshi