[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Dark Ranger88]

: Alright guys, found something out about the Izayoi matchup. If she goes Gain Art and tries to use Sonic Sabre > Teleport to get in, you can parry the Sonic Sabre and when she teleports she'll get hit by the parry catch. And Space Counter will still hit her even though she's behind you.

[MoneyD90]

Good find Dark Ranger. Seems like every Izayoi autopilots into that. Lol

[Justice7541]

Does it autocorrect the parry input if she crosses you up with the teleport before the sword hits? That's how I get all my free damage against opponents who don't/can't jump it.

[Wild Candy]

So if anyone's still looking for combo routes

 

I've had luck with 5B > 5CC > 5D > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > j.B > j.D > 2D 

 

It's a little more practical to end combos with 2D if you want Oki now, but luckily it's rolll safe which somewhat makes up for Makoto's slightly subpar mix up options.

 

But you can also pick up with 5CC or 6C, or possible even 6B~C and end with either Corona Upper or Particle Flare for damage

[swordsman09]

2B? Really? How's that suppose to work?

[Kcin]

So if anyone's still looking for combo routes

I've had luck with 5B > 5CC > 5D > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > j.B > j.D > 2D

For that specific combo the 2D is the 10th hit, so you can 5D again which even though it smp's you still have enough time to set up orb safely for 3k still.

If you hit a normal starter into 5D, only use one other Drive, and end with j.D>5D on or before the 10th hit, you'll get almost all of 5D's regular untech time with the smp.

Using this in matches, if they do anything other than emergency tech they'll eat orb hits, and E-tech or back roll if spaced too far gives you enough time to safely recover

[Errol]

you don't want to safely recover, if you just safely recover that means your oki is gone. you need to really check this stuff, because if there's a way to get out of it by taking 100 damage from comet cannon.. that's really bad.

[Kcin]

In my current experience, when they delay and eat the hit, if they push anything too fast it'll cause them to E-tech, which then at that point you're already neutral. When they've tried to eat it then roll/quick stand, It usually ends with them eating a 2B/5C blue beat back into orb. There may be an extremely small gap that could allow a forward roll,(or it could have been bad execution on my part in my matches) which most times I got a free 5CC then I'd 2D side swap them back into the corner given the character I'm fighting against.

As for the back roll statement, there are times I'll orb too fast on the dash that it sits directly in front of them,(sometime I purposefully do this to attempt to bait growlers from Az) and if they back roll without eating the hit, then at the very least I know I won't be punished for it.

Truth be told I've had positive results using smp so far in my locals, but my chance to take it beyond that has been very limited and I haven't gotten on my ps3 in quite some time for varying reasons. If this turns out to be bad tech, I apologize in advance for wasting people's time discussing it so frequently

[Errol]

blue beat == free out

[Kcin]

Ok, tested out what I believe is every possible outcome.

>The timing is tight but when done perfect and spaced right, all rolls and neutral get hit by orb and can be red beat from, and is DP safe.

>If you're too slow and the orb is close enough to hit all rolls, it becomes unsafe against ET DPs.(Tested CU and ID)

>If you're too slow but far enough to hit everything except back rolls, it's ET DP safe.(CU whiffs ID blocked)

>If they eat ANY orb hits with a roll/QS, you can break shot and convert into damage or proper orb oki.

>When orb hits them on rolls or quick stand,it forces them to ET if you do not Break shot and they hold a button.

>If they choose not to ET or react too slow after eating orb, you can pick up with 2A/2B which is the blue beat punish I was referring to in my last post. There is no gap in this unless you mis-time the punish.

>If you time it horribly off and are too close, a forward roll will make it through and you'll be open. That would take terrible netplay to honestly make that happen.

One other thing is I'm not constantly using this as my go to strategey, but more when I hit something like a corner overhead, or a confirm when I wasn't prepared to 6C into and ended up going that route. I've had too many matches where I get disrepected on 2D orb oki because if they don't ET, they eat the orb hits and get a free air tech unless you lv3 break shot.

[Shado_Onikkisu]

anybody know the Tightest blockstring there is right now? especially for characters like Ragna who can DP out of 5CC. i mostly try to mix it up with 214A~A or throw in a Lander blow and not autopilot into 5CC, but my main two problems are people mashing out or DPing me.

[MoneyD90]

You can stop the string early and bait their dp mashing. Most Ragna stop mashing once they see you are now doing that. I think there are other ways too like 213b but I'm not 100% sure on that one.

[Bibiquadium]

Fit a 6A jump block land 6B 2B Grab or even j.C depending on the level of respect. Usually when they lose half their lives for dp mashing they learn. (hopefully)

[Dark Ranger88]

2A > 2A > 2A > 2B can be airtight if you don't stagger it, and the 2B at the end can catch people mashing DP/upbacking.

 

But if people are waiting specifically for 5CC then DPing, you can just do 5B > 5C > 5CC > Block and it will beat any DP/Reversal except for command grabs. Part of baiting DPs is knowing how your opponent is DPing (are they waiting for a specific move like 5CC?; or are they repeatedly doing the DP's input in hopes that it will activate during a gap in your pressure?)

[Shado_Onikkisu]

2A > 2A > 2A > 2B can be airtight if you don't stagger it, and the 2B at the end can catch people mashing DP/upbacking.

 

But if people are waiting specifically for 5CC then DPing, you can just do 5B > 5C > 5CC > Block and it will beat any DP/Reversal except for command grabs. Part of baiting DPs is knowing how your opponent is DPing (are they waiting for a specific move like 5CC?; or are they repeatedly doing the DP's input in hopes that it will activate during a gap in your pressure?)

 

i guess i can do 2A > 2A > 2A > 2B since i know how to follow up from 2B if i get a ground hit or air hit confirm.  the part about 5C > 5CC i don't get is that it seems like i get DP between both Cs though. like, 5B > 5C > *got DP'd* >5CC

[MoneyD90]

You are correct.There is a gap between both C in 5CC so dps will beat it. However, it beats just about everything else making it a decent frame trap.

[Dark Ranger88]

i guess i can do 2A > 2A > 2A > 2B since i know how to follow up from 2B if i get a ground hit or air hit confirm.  the part about 5C > 5CC i don't get is that it seems like i get DP between both Cs though. like, 5B > 5C > *got DP'd* >5CC

 

You can still just do 2A > 5B > 5C > Block, and it will still beat DPs

[Bibiquadium]

If they are mashing so damn hard and I'm already suspecting its netplay related you can see how hard they mash by canceling into ~236D, except for Tsubaki you'll most likely beat any DP that isn't low profilable by 2B, it's not safe at all but obviously if its a mashing case we have here you'll figure it out very soon.

[Justice7541]

So I'm trying to get into this character (bad time I guess lol) and I'm trying to figure out the good orb oki setups.  So far I've been doing 5B 5C 6C 214A~C~236D(3) 6A 2D(3) 2C 214A~A 5C j.B j.D(3) 5D dash orb but the j.D is pretty tight and I'm not getting a huge amount of damage out of it.  Obviously that's the tradeoff for getting good oki but I'm curious if anyone's found anything better.

 

Also, I've been trying to set the orb so it doesn't actually hit them when they stand up but is close enough to get them if they press a button.  Is that generally considered better if they don't have a strong DP to worry about?

[Arc Raizen]

There is a separate combo thread where I have a post in which I've compiled a long list of possible combos and their damages, as well as any other combos posted by other users. Feel free to take a look at that.

 

I have two separate notes as well. First, you should probably leave out 5C from 5B>5C>6C>214A~C>236D, since the proration from the 5C will end up lowering the damage on longer combos a bit and it also gives you more time in the rest of the combo. Second, because of the nerfs/*cough*changes*cough* to j.B, doing j.B>j.D late in combos is either far more difficult or even impossible since the patch. You basically have to do j.D early in a combo and suffer from less-than-optimal proration from it, or leave it out entirely.

[Justice7541]

Yeah, I've noticed that the j.D link is a lot harder now, although it does open up a couple of new options like 2C 214B j.B j.D which I don't think really worked before because of hitboxes. I've been doing that when combo timing gets a bit tight, i.e. if I had to do 2B 5B as the combo starter. Either way though hitting j.D seems pretty important if you want oki since as far as I can tell the only enders that go cleanly into orb oki are j.D, 5D, and 236D, and the latter two tend to get used up early or are hard to combo into late.

Also, what's the point of Cosmic Arrow? It looks cool but I haven't found much use for it.

[OmniSScythe]

Yeah, I've noticed that the j.D link is a lot harder now, although it does open up a couple of new options like 2C 214B j.B j.D which I don't think really worked before because of hitboxes. I've been doing that when combo timing gets a bit tight, i.e. if I had to do 2B 5B as the combo starter. Either way though hitting j.D seems pretty important if you want oki since as far as I can tell the only enders that go cleanly into orb oki are j.D, 5D, and 236D, and the latter two tend to get used up early or are hard to combo into late.

Also, what's the point of Cosmic Arrow? It looks cool but I haven't found much use for it.

 

Outside of OD, gimmicks and chip kill, nothing at all.

[Justice7541]

Good character.

[Pharrox]

Hello everybody, lurked here forever, but kinda want to start actually learning to play seriously.

 

Does anyone have any tips for linking lightning arrow into corona for OD carry combos? It seems like it should be easy, but I'm stupid inconsistent with it. Half the time I either don't get the dash and corona whiffs, and the other half I seem to dash too far and corona sends them backwards so they don't get hit with meteor dive. As far as I can tell there aren't any tricks to it like 2366A for orb.

[Shado_Onikkisu]

Hello everybody, lurked here forever, but kinda want to start actually learning to play seriously.

 

Does anyone have any tips for linking lightning arrow into corona for OD carry combos? It seems like it should be easy, but I'm stupid inconsistent with it. Half the time I either don't get the dash and corona whiffs, and the other half I seem to dash too far and corona sends them backwards so they don't get hit with meteor dive. As far as I can tell there aren't any tricks to it like 2366A for orb.

you're using it during Midscreen right? Its really easy for me. what combo do you start with before going into OD?