[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Teutonicknight]

Feels tighter, not exactly faster for me.

Speaking of tighter, am I the only one who thinks reducing stun time on j.b sort of kills the purpose of making it directly chainable to j.D? I really don't know wtf they're aiming for with Makoto, but they better stop f**king up my one and only squirrel girl. And Tsubaki players thought they had it bad? Pfft.

 

I mean I am trying to enjoy this game, but it's kind of difficult when my main is eating soooooo much shit. Kokonoe or Azrael are looking tempting right now as much as I hate to admit it... Ugh.

[StarGazer]

Our goal: to land 5D after j.D for orb oki

Problem: new j.B j.D can't land at harsh scaling :/

 

Eh! we deal less damage in general. Anyway, CT not only lost more than half of its spinning time, also it lost quite a lot of untech time. Now 2C > CT no longer goes into 214AC, we are limited to 2B pick up and even so its about 2~3 frames tight damn. Its stupid because you can't follow it up when your CT catch someone jumping out or rolling off knockdown. PF last hit being faster wont affect the gameplay i guess, it just makes the game faster, should been there since the beginning.

 

Best BnB i did was

 

6C > 214AC236D > 66 > 2D > 2C CT > 2B 6A > j.B j.D > 5D 

 

deals 4200 something while retaining Orb oki woooooo

 

Don't put too many hopes on new 6B bounce, by logic it shouldn't boast our damage that high since it only deals as much damage as 5CC with more than twice its start up, even the options after it is cool but not spectacular. If anything then 6B potential is in midscreen combos after 6A  since it lacked options or 2D lvl3, i had so many ideas that might work but none of em turned out right meh :/ 6A CH > 6BC stuff is fun tho.

 

Also, i'm not a mod but can we have 100% absolutely free salt posts? Makoto has been the worst character in game for 3 times now and people still call her good. You have the full right to rant about it but i think we are going overboard here, plus it kills the whole point of staying loyal to Makoto. 

 

Was this always possible? http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23553742

 

Yes, without even the need to RC. Abusing Space counter positive P2 been there since CS1 but its far from being viable, just a training mode thing~

[swordsman09]

And now to add with the j.B>j.D troubles, 6C>214AC>236D doesn't even work on midgets anymore. At least not on Carl.

[StarGazer]

WHAT! not even delay helps?

[Teutonicknight]

I saw all this coming. I'm still not cooled off from it though. This knight is not happy.

[RoanYagyu]

Ive gotten 6C>214AC>236D to work on carl . Actually it seems like 6C has more stun/untech (dunno whats the right word for it :X )  so you can delay 236AC more than before, at least from what lil ive tried of makoto  

[Ried]

5B 5CC 5D(3), 66 2C 214A~C~236D, 5B 6A 2D(3), 236A~D, 5CC into either PF or air-combo DP ender still works at least. Off the usual confirm it's a little over 4 flat. With Particle Flare, it's just under 5. If you're confident in that 1-hit crouch or counter confirm(5B into 5D, no 5CC's), it becomes 4238, which is the highest I could get off meterless 5B before, and I'd be surprised if that changes in 1.1. It's no less though, so that's...nice. I guess.

 

Mid-screen you could do something like

5B 6C 214A~C~236D, running 2D(2), 5B 6A 2D(3), 236A~D, 5CC into air-combo DP ender or PF, which ends up being about 3.9 or 4.7 respectively.

Not sure if that's really optimal or not. Just what I'm playing around with atm.

 

Another meh mid-screen double side-swap combo(i.e. not the greatest positioning)

5B 5CC 6BC 2D(2), 2D(3), 2C 214A~A, 6A 6BC 5D(3)

That'll net you a measly 3.4-3.5. I 'think' you can choose your side with the right timing/spacing(and/or depending on the character), but if you're as dumb as me, you'll mix your inputs up and get 5A a lot instead.

...or, you can just do the old side-swap combo with less hits and no chance of j.D ender for similar'ish numbers and far more consistency.

 

The whole 5B 5CC 2D(2), 2D(3), 6B 214A~C~236D route seems like it's only usable when your back's to the wall, but the damage ends up being comparable if you wanna go for that.

 

As far as oki enders.

I don't know what other people have come up with yet, but mid-screen I've been messing with

5B 6C 214A~C~236D, running 6A j.B j.D(3), 2D(3), 6BC 5D(3) for about 3.5.

It's a bad combo. More just experimenting with interchangeable parts than anything worth using for real.

 

And in the corner

5B 5C 6C 214A~C~236D, 5B 6A 2D(3), 236A~D, 6A 6BC 5D(3) works for 3.6-3.7. *shrug*

 

I also really wanna screw around with 2-hit PF into 6B for some style combos next time I get on, if only because 90% of my old style combos don't work anymore...and efficiency is overrated.

One stupidly impractical style combo that DOES still work though: The Squirrel World Tour!

From mid-screen

FC 2C 214B j.B 66A 8 j.D 66 5B 6A 2D(3) -OD- DP 214B~D tkDP 214A~D BBS(or just dash 5D if you don't have the meter but that's weaksauce)

Take em corner to corner.

There's another silly one I haven't really finished yet involving 2D(2) side-swap juggles x3 which still works, but I'll hold it until I can come up with a satisfying conclusion for it.

Such a shame that all the amazing things you could do with j.B are gone now though. RIP fun.

[Ragnarok_F4]

Hey, did the Cosmic Ray always wall-bounced in the corner on counter in 1.0?

[Arc Raizen]

Yes it did.

 

Is anyone else having input trouble with Particle Flare, or is it just me? It seems to be caused by the change that lets 6316 be read as 632146. If I do my PF input and I get 1236321236 (I just did it and thats what it read) I get BBS instead of PF.

Here's a few examples of inputs and results as I test:

123621236D   - Particle Flare

123631236D   - Big Bang Smash

12363236D     - Particle Flare

21236236D     - Particle Flare

12363236D     - Particle Flare

23632126D     - Big Bang Smash

1236321236D - Big Bang Smash

236321236D   - Big Bang Smash

32363236D     - Particle Flare

 

If you go too quickly on the input and hit 1 after the first 236 you get BBS over PF. This is a big problem for me since I've always had slightly wild inputs.

[M19Kamikaze]

Hey, did the Cosmic Ray always wall-bounced in the corner on counter in 1.0?

Yes

[Ragnarok_F4]

Ok, thanks. So Cosmic Ray will still be useless unless it is used in OD like before. And j5B > j5D is making things tighter, maybe I'll stop using it in long combos and only use it to send people to the corner. Guess I'll try to use the orb in corner combos more along with the 6B and see if something comes up.

 

Is this still working? I'm dropping the j5B > j5D part (again), but dunno yet if it is just to time correctly the hits before that.

 

5B>5CC>2D(2)>5B>6A>2D(3)>2C>214B>j5C>j5B>relaunch with j5B>j5D(3)>66>5D(3)>orb oki

[swordsman09]

I think we should all stop using orb oki. We should all just go for damage instead of the oki.

[Dark Ranger88]

One thing I've noticed about j.B > j.D is that you have to line the j.D up just right or it won't connect at all. This is probably because we don't jump cancel anymore, so we lose height. For it to hit most of the time I have to hit the opponent with Makoto's ass during j.B. If you're hitting the opponent with the top of j.B's hitbox you'll most likely whiff completely.

 

 

I think we should all stop using orb oki. We should all just go for damage instead of the oki.

 

Ugh...that was probably their goal with this effing patch, to eliminate all orb oki. I just wish they didn't jack our combos and damage off just to accomplish that though. All they had to do was give the orb more recovery time so that DPs would be able to hit you through it, then orb oki would be the way it was in Extend.

 

The j.B > j.D change along with the combo timer just messes up our oki game altogether. Even if you go for a fully damaging corner combo, the timer will make it so that they will either tech out of your air combo or they will tech Meteor Dive before they hit the ground (both of which can lead to you eating a combo). You have to give up damage just to go for damage lol. And rolling is going to be super annoying now...*sigh*...most people will roll out of the corner and willingly eat a less damaging combo just to get midscreen again.

 

Also, am I the only one who thinks that Meteor Dive should be completely untechable until the opponent hits the ground? Does this happen to any other character besides Makoto? Can't Ragna do Axe Kick or Hells Fang no matter how long the combo is and still get a knockdown off of it? And the SMP on Lunatic Upper means we can't use Mars Chopper to end corner combos either...

[Kcin]

I think we should all stop using orb oki. We should all just go for damage instead of the oki.

I've been thinking the same thing here after some more experimenting, and most combos i'm playing around with are netting me near 4k if I just aim to do as much damage as possible

I've managed to figure out a few corner 5k's. Hopefully there's some more practical ones that work off more common confirms.

FC 2C > CT > 2B > 6A > 2D > 236D > 6A > 6C > 214B~jB > jD > 5D > 6C > PF (5259dmg)

6C > 214A~C > 236D > 2C > CT > 2B > 6A > 2D > jB > jD > 5D > 6C > PF (5511dmg)

Swag 5k: FC 2C > 236D > 6B~C > 2D > 6B > 236A~D > 66 6A > 6C > 214B~jB > jD > 5D > 6C > PF (5081dmg)

Edit* another corner 5K

6C > 632146D > RC > 2D > 6B~C > 236D > 6B~C > 5D > 2B > 5C > jB > 623C~D (5957dmg)

5B > 6C > 632146D > RC > 2D > 6B~C > 5D > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > jC~B > jC~B > 623C~D (5682dmg)

[Teutonicknight]

Is this still working? I'm dropping the j5B > j5D part (again), but dunno yet if it is just to time correctly the hits before that.

I think it has to be frame perfect in order to string correctly. Makoto's artificially harder to use as hell after the anti-Makoto patch.

[StarGazer]

j.B doesn't launch as high now so j.B j.D is not thaaaat hard to line up.

 

I think Makoto orb oki is a must, Makoto pressure doesn't scale in corner like other characters because of her ass neutral, orb oki fix that. But the option to go for damage enders now is more tempting especially with some effy starters. If thats the case then im thinking about TK DP enders since meteor dive now for no reason has a shitty untechable time.

[M19Kamikaze]

I know what happened. Sol took over ASW and pretty much 'killed off' whatever remained of Makoto. It's the only logical explanation.

 

Because this is some bull...

[Teutonicknight]

Aside from no positive changes, I still can't stick or switch to another character... I dunno whether I should be happy or sad

Training with her was a great way to top off my b-day though, kind of relaxing really.

[Ragnarok_F4]

We can still use throws in the corner into orb oki, it's like 3k (a bit less) with the oki.

 

Also, I remember from another version of BB, that people used to use Meteor Dive to do the orb oki (something like: stuff > j5B > Corona Upper > Meteor Dive (delayed) > orb oki). Maybe we could use something like that?

[Kcin]

A habit i'm starting to form for damage routes is to jB~jD as soon as possible to save the frustration later in the string if I have no intention for orb on that combo.

Midscreen i'm starting to autopilot these 2 combos now (not going to play online randoms until i get in tune with 1.1)

5B > 6C 214A~C > 236D > 66 6C > 214B > jB~D > 5D > (2C > 2D > 6B~C >DP or 2D > 6A > jC~B > jC~B > DP) at work so i don't remember the damage off rip, something like 4k-ish IIRC

I'll fix any errors with this when i get home

[OmnixTSC]

Also, I remember from another version of BB, that people used to use Meteor Dive to do the orb oki (something like: stuff > j5B > Corona Upper > Meteor Dive (delayed) > orb oki). Maybe we could use something like that?

 

Hmm, I don't remember this. Could have been a thing, though.

 

2D > Orb Oki is going to have to be our ender for some combos from the looks of it. It's basically the same thing as 5D > Orb Oki.

[Goldchampion200]

I miss the good old days... #whensGroupsagain?

[OmnixTSC]

So when are we going to see the influx of combo notes and stuff now that Makoto is slightly better?

[Goldchampion200]

 When everybody gets hype again so probably not anytime soon.

[Yazumatto]

So when are we going to see the influx of combo notes and stuff now that Makoto is slightly better?

Who said that? o_O