[CSE-CP] Jin Questions and Answers Thread - How Do I Shot Ice?

[Moy_X7]

Q & A

You got questions? We might have some answers, so shoot. However, before you ask away, I would encourage you to read the CP changes thread to save a bit of everyone's time.

Q: Are Hizansen and Hizangeki overheads/highs?

A: Hizansen is NOT an overhead. The 2nd hit of Hizangeki IS an overhead though.

Q: Is Jin still gay for Ragna?

A: Yes, very much so.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Moy_X7

[Sanctuary]

Do Hizansen and Hizangeki has I-frames? And is their recovery good or bad?

[Moy_X7]

I'm not entirely sure on those moves having I-frames but I highly doubt that they do. Their recovery is kinda bad, you're in a recovery state the entire time after you use it, so you'll have to make sure it hits at least.

[Sanctuary]

Is Ice Arrows still the same as CSE?

[Moy_X7]

You can use it in the air now and it might receive a power up during Overdrive.

[Sanctuary]

I actually meant if the recovery time and minimum damage was still ass like in CSE.

[Moy_X7]

I'm not sure about the recovery time but the minimum damage has definitely been bumped up to at least 1K.

[xlolxlolx]

uhhh I think I read that hiyoku is the same in od and yukikaze only gets a slight dmg buff

[Moy_X7]

Well that sucks lol

[Ryudrake]

Probably not the right place for it but is the CT jump or dash cancelable? It's also probably counted as a special attack right?

[shtkn]

crush triggers are indeed special attacks. no they are not jump or dash cancelable.

[tibochuck]

Do ice blades in OD cause freeze? And what do you guys think of the combo potential of the new 5D FC?

[HyalS]

Uh, I was wondering... let's say sekkajin doesn't hit because Jin isn't at enough range, so he doesn't pull out the sword. If he gets hit in that moment, does it still counts as counter hit? Because technically, he wasn't attacking. Probably yes, but just asking if someone saw it?

English isn't my mother language btw so sorry about any mistakes:v:

[Moy_X7]

Do ice blades in OD cause freeze? And what do you guys think of the combo potential of the new 5D FC?

I haven't seen any footage where someone uses an Ice Blade during OD so I can't really say. I would assume that it does though.

As for 5D FC, it really depends on how long 5D's freeze effect on FC lasts. If it lasts long enough for a dash cancel 5B/5C to connect, then there will be some potential for it as long as you're near the corner.

Outside of the corner, you're going to have to spend at least 25 Heat or Overdrive cancel to get something worthwhile out of it.

Uh, I was wondering... let's say sekkajin doesn't hit because Jin isn't at enough range, so he doesn't pull out the sword. If he gets hit in that moment, does it still counts as counter hit? Because technically, he wasn't attacking. Probably yes, but just asking if someone saw it?

English isn't my mother language btw so sorry about any mistakes:v:

Sorry to say but I haven't seen any footage of this happening but if I had to guess, you probably are in CH state during the failed Sekkajin recovery. Plat's Item Equip or Relius' summons aren't actually "attacks" but it still puts them in a CH state.

You won't have to worry about it as long as you remember Sekkajin's minimum activation range.

[tibochuck]

As for 5D FC, it really depends on how long 5D's freeze effect on FC lasts. If it lasts long enough for a dash cancel 5B/5C to connect, then there will be some potential for it as long as you're near the corner.

Outside of the corner, you're going to have to spend at least 25 Heat or Overdrive cancel to get something worthwhile out of it.

There was some footage I just saw from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrPuQ1FvTmg&feature=plcp during the first match where tetsu used a 5D Fatal on Bullet. Looks like the freeze duration is still the same w/o the fatal meaning that we'll have to be using meter/OD to make a combo :\

[Moy_X7]

Well in CSII-CSE, 5D CH > DC > 5B(1, Max Range) used to work. If stuff > 6C > 214B works near the corner then 5D FC > DC > 5B(1) > 5C > 6C > 214B (Whiff) > 66 5A/5B might just work mid-screen. 6C CH > 214B (Whiff), 66 5C works mid-screen so there's hope for it yet.

[tibochuck]

True but all I'm hoping for is some high damage FC combos like in the CS days where a 2C FC would lead to over 6k damage MIDSCREEN... Ahhh the good old days

[Sanctuary]

One thing I forgot to ask, is rehyou still -40 on block?

[ShelledMenace]

It's certainly still not something you'll get away with on block if you don't have fifty heat lol

[Moy_X7]

The proration data has been released to the public from what I know but not the static difference values. I would assume that's it's still an easy punish from what I've seen in videos.

[Putin]

I can punish rolls, late techs and mashing, but I can't consistently punish wakeup... jumps. And I don't mean upbacking during pressure gaps, just straight up wakeup jumping.

If I see it coming I can jump and throw them, but that can always be teched and in Jin's case, you let the opponent out of the corner.

If I don't, I whiff roll punish 2A and whatever I follow it up with just goes under them, and if I jump I may get j.B'ed in the face or something. I guess I can meaty something that'll force them to air barrier and then go for j.A pressure?

It would be cool if there was a universal method to fight against this since I also play Hazama, but if that's not the case I can repost this in the Haz forums I guess.

[Moy_X7]

2A/5B should tag them during pre-jump frames if you use it as "oki". If you use a meaty right, then it will tag them during jump start-up. If they have the time to jump out AND Barrier block in the air, then that's not much of a meaty

If you're afraid of them jumping out or rolling out of the corner, you can always just end your combos with 3C > 236C as long as the combo hasn't been scaled to hell. 236C beats rolls, mashing, and jump out and makes it easier to bait DPs.

[Putin]

B-but it always works as an anti-roll, I just happen to mistime it every time they decide to jump? D:

[Moy_X7]

I know, it happens.

Your best bets are to finish a combo with 214A and do a safe jump j.2C or finish your combo with 3C > 236C. The latter is guaranteed to keep the opponent in the corner, the former requires a good timing on the j.2C as a well timed roll can still get them outta the corner.

[xlolxlolx]

C ice sword can be dped thru in ex lol a ice car backdash is the best option imo