[CSE-CP] Jin Questions and Answers Thread - How Do I Shot Ice?

[eQualz]

Actually it depends on the hight you do Sekkajin. It's much easier if you do if it off 6C than for example 3C or on standing. Off 6C you'd need to delay ~D a little bit else they'll be too high for the follow up to hit.

And by the way the Rehyou route is not that hard once you figure out the exact timing. I've been pretty stable in doing them, hell I even manged to do it online.

[Dazardz]

Hello, don't think I've ever posted in the Jin forums before. Two questions though.

1. I was thinking of maining Jin-no I am maining him, despite being with Nu since CT, because I realise I just play better with Jin. Maybe it's because of P4A's Liz, which I was quite good with?

But I'm kind of struggling with Jin pressure, like what kind is it, if you get what I mean... like high/low game, or extended pressure or something like that. I went into training mode and made two forms on very long pressure, one in the corner, and one midscreen. But is that what I'm supposed to be doing? I know, or think, that Jin is a character good at hiding a grab, so I put that in there too. He doesn't really have much overheads, and he can't combo off 6A without counter or RC, (unless you play like me and go for a purple throw right after).

I've watched so many videos and gosh I can't pick up on it. The videos I see involve Jin getting DP'd during pressure, or just being able to plain hit them as if the opponent stopped blocking...

Any help?

2. Much shorter.

My friends told me Jin is sort of a gimmicky character with a lot of resets and things like that, is that true? I've seen a lot of high level play with resets, so I assumed so. Which would make me want to play him even more knowing that Liz had some resets too.

That's all.

I think I can link some Jin and Liz stuff together, even if they might play differently, like hardly any overheads and etc. but not until I get to know Jin a bit.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Dazardz

[cadacus_ater]

The only high/low games Jin really has involve 5B > 6A/2B and j.2C/empty jump > low. If you wanted to include specials he also has [6B or j.2C] > [j.214D/land > low]. Most of Jin's pressure is about catching the opponent off guard, so in a sense it sometimes comes down to extended pressure when high/lows don't work well. You also want to occasionally zone your opponent with his longer range attacks like 5C, 5D, 2D and attempt to frame trap them with things like 5C > 6B, ideally looking for a counter hit. Don't use 6B too often though, it's best to be unpredictable with it. The use of these tactics can depend on what character you are facing of course.

Jin is a rather gimmicky character, when he wants to be, with many of his resets coming off of freezes or specific combos that end in such a way that you can resume pressure immediately. Probably his most used reset in the corner is stuff > 6C > 6D, reset high/low. You can also use some of his specials for decent resets, but I haven't used them much yet.

[Tenryuga]

I see stuff like TK Hizangeki or TK ice blades a lot. What does TK stand for?

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[Luminos564]

I see stuff like TK Hizangeki or TK ice blades a lot. What does TK stand for?

TK stands for "Tiger Knee". It generally refers to doing an aerial (or aerial version) of your move from the ground. This is done by inputting the notation on the ground then immediately pressing "8" (or "up") to get the move to come out. In Jin's case that you mentioned, you would do the 236 (quarter-circle forward) or 214 (quarter-circle back) on the ground then immediately hit 8 (or 7 or 9) for Ice Blades and Hizangeki respectively.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Luminos564

[Putin]

Speaking about TKs, how do you guys prefer to TK Hizansen in your combos?

When I throw out raw TKs I obviously use 2148, but in combos I feel more comfortable with 8214, probably due to CSEX Hazama's TK loops which required this motion.

I do find myself superjumping the TK Hizansen every now and then though which causes the combo to drop afterwards, so I don't know if it's optimal in this case.

TK combos are the best looking meterless ones btw, and probably the best all around if you want Sekka ender or a freeze reset.

Which translates to... damage = Hizansen ender, everything else = TK combos, simple stuff

[PozerWolf]

Doing TK Non-EX Hizansen is optimal with 2148, as doing 8214 only works on certain characters. Where as the other motions works on all characters and almost all situations. EX version on the other hand is normally best to do 8214.

Try doing 8214 and 2148 motion on characters like Hakuman and Kagura. You'll notice that, when doing it wrong, 8214 will cause Hizansen to whiff, and even if you land it, there's a chance of 6D not working. Where as, with the 2148 motion, these issue never occur.

[Putin]

I'd only tested the route only on a handful of characters up to now, thinking that 8214 worked on everyone, but after reading your post I went into the lab and noticed that neither of us was right.

8214 causes simple jump, while 2148 causes superjump.

8214 always works on characters like Hazama and Noel, but 2148 doesn't let you pick them up with 2B afterwards unless you do Musou > dash > 5B.

2148 always works on characters like Hakumen, but 8214 whiffs entirely.

Then there's characters like Bang on which only 2148 works including a dash, and others like Tager or Valk who are cool with either option.

There's also chars like Tao on which the 5C after 2B whiffs every time, but it works fine if you do 2148 after a dash. The 5C whiff issue can probably be remedied by doing dash 2B but I haven't gotten it down yet since it seems useless atm

This turned out more complicated than I thought it was, I guess it's time to memorize what works at least on the characters I face the most.

[cadacus_ater]

I always use 214[7, 8 or 9] for my TKs; never had a problem with them on any character so long as they were at the proper height (very low) when I caught them with 5B after 214B.

The most damage I've gotten for 5B meterless in the corner is from the following, for 3663 damage:

5B(2) > 5C > 2C > 3C > 214B, (delay) 66 5B(2) > 5C > j.214[8]C, (66) 2B > 5C > 6C > 6D, 6C > 22C, 22C

Works on everyone as long as you microdash 2B (very tight) on Makoto, Izayoi, Carl (maybe Kokonoe, but I can't test on her) and Tao and delay 66 5B(2) so that you catch characters like Mu, Bullet and Carl as low as possible as they fall from 214B. Note, however, that depending on their height when you dash after 214B, you may not want to delay 5B on them at all....

For those who don't like TKs, you can get 3599 damage and 25 meter with a DP C route. On characters like Mu, Bullet and Carl, you have to delay the 5B to catch them very low after 214B, as well as delay the DP C [EDIT: On Tao, and perhaps some other characters, you have to delay 6C to connect it as well as delay the 5B catch after 623C on Tao, Litchi and any other characters which would whiff (22C, 2B); but you could always be lazy and change it to 22C, 5B(1) > 22C for less damage]:

5B(2) > 5C > 2C > 3C > 214B, (delay) 66 5B(2) > 5C > 2C > (delay) 6C > (delay) 623C, (delay) 5B(2) > 5C > 22C, 2B > 22C

Edited January 14, 2014 by cadacus_ater
More character specific details

[Dawn of Musou]

Is there any way I can combo after cross-up j.D? The opponent is too far away for 5B to connect and if I dash>5B then they tech out before I can hit. I can only seem to follow up with max range 5C which can't be followed up with anything meterless. Or am I just doing the cross-up j.D too far?

[Putin]

You need to be far enough from the opponent when you iad. If you space it correctly you'll land close enough for 66 5B to work

[Dawn of Musou]

Makes sense, thanks. I'll test it out later today.

[PozerWolf]

I'd only tested the route only on a handful of characters up to now, thinking that 8214 worked on everyone, but after reading your post I went into the lab and noticed that neither of us was right.

8214 causes simple jump, while 2148 causes superjump.

8214 always works on characters like Hazama and Noel, but 2148 doesn't let you pick them up with 2B afterwards unless you do Musou > dash > 5B.

2148 always works on characters like Hakumen, but 8214 whiffs entirely.

Then there's characters like Bang on which only 2148 works including a dash, and others like Tager or Valk who are cool with either option.

There's also chars like Tao on which the 5C after 2B whiffs every time, but it works fine if you do 2148 after a dash. The 5C whiff issue can probably be remedied by doing dash 2B but I haven't gotten it down yet since it seems useless atm

This turned out more complicated than I thought it was, I guess it's time to memorize what works at least on the characters I face the most.

I'm confused as to how you're timing the TK motion.

Going through training mode and testing this on every character, aside from pausing 5B on certain characters, doing 2147 always gets me the combo. I never have do anything extra besides dash in 2B, which you can do with the entire cash anyways, so I just do dash in 2B just in case even on characters you don't need to do it on. Where as 8214 whiffs on Haukmen and Kagura.

I might be doing it too fast, but this is the end result I'm getting.

[darkasjinksu§]

You can negate the need for a microdash after Hizansen on some characters if you microdash the 5B. It's easier timing, so you can see why it's preferable.

[Putin]

Yeah, my tests never involved dash 2B but the occasional dash 5B.

2148C is indeed more universal though after all

[GroovyMango]

Sup guys, new here. Kinda new to BB. There is something I'm curious about how other Jin players feel. In the corner, do you go for freeze resets (High/low/throw/left/right mixup) or do you go for Sekkajin (safejump) or Hizensen (damage + neutral)? I prefer freeze resets myself, but I'm getting to the point where I think it'll be wiser to start mixing it up between the 3

[Tong]

Hizansen route should be avoided against characters with good options to escape from corner, such as Arakune and Hazama.

I usually go for Sekkajin safe jumps because after they start respecting j.2C, by neutral teching, blocking and not doing reversals, I can go for better mixup options like empty jump> 2B, IAD j.2C> whiff j.C> 2B or a throw somewhere.

Freeze resets in corner generally comes from less damaging combos and good reversals can shut down your mix-up attemps. But outside corner it's one of his best options.

[Putin]

I go for Hizansen ender off things like poke > Tousshou because the damage loss is usually pretty big when you go for other routes, other than that I try to have a little variety and use both Sekka ender and freeze resets.

Thing is, resets are kind of gimmicky so you don't want to overuse them and get the opponent too confident. Do them every now and then and you'll get more free combos / wasted bursts out of them in the long run

[osirris33]

Is Jin OP in BBCP? I've been playing BBCSE on my vita and I really like Jin so far. Do I need to learn to accept that fact that I'll be maining a top tier?

[Putin]

Not OP, the game is balanced if you ignore Koko. He's just a really good character.

[TopTierTaite]

Hey guys,

This is probably asked quite often,but I'm new to BBCP (I usually play Marvel and KoF) and I'm looking to learn Jin. What are some things I should practice and read (besides frame data, hit-boxes, etc.) to improve my Jin?

[Tenryuga]

Hi I was wondering how to go about fighting Makoto and Terumi. I feel like once they get in on me I'm done for.

[darkasjinksu§]

There's no one way to fight anyone, so elaborate. What's your skill level at? Are your opponents a higher skill level? Are there any specific mixups or situations in which you are clueless? Anywhere you're getting punished? Do you have trouble with neutral? It's hard to answer your question without some or all of these answered.

You might want to check the matchup threads as well, there might be something to help you.

[Tenryuga]

I would say I'm a beginner. I understand frame data and mixups etc but I don't really have the hang of the neutral IMO. And yes my opponents are higher skill level. I play relatively safe so yeah I would also say I'm clueless as to what I can and can't disrespect. I'm not really the type to mash 5A/2A.

[BAMFito]

what is the motion for blizzard?

I am having trouble unsderantind the way in which they represent the motion?

it looks like 623b, but that be right.

I tried a few combinations and they don't seem to work.