[CP] Ragna Combo Thread/Discussion

[Jackie Chandler]

Question, aside from SMP reasons in what situations is it more beneficial to end combos with hells fang as opposed to D ID?

The reason I always go for Hell's Fang -> Tsuika enders is because of how much more time you have to set up oki after it. It's always important to set up an offensive game whenever your opponent is waking up, and while this setup has existed for a while, it's especially important now that the old 22C is gone.

All you do is Tsuika -> 8 jump. If your opponent emergency techs, you can go for a high/low mix-up by either doing airdash -> jC -> jD or land -> 2B, and you can do a safejump by simply doing a falling jB while holding 4. I know what you're thinking - "but Jackie, why would I do jB instead of jC?" The answer is simple - because the jB catches attempts to roll out of the corner.

If your opponent just plain neutral techs, you can react with whatever meaty ground normal you'd like. If they delay their tech until you touch the ground, you should always land and 2C -> press 5C. If they try to roll forward or backward, or if they quick tech, you'll get a reset - but if they neutral tech, you'll recover in time to throw out a meaty normal or bait out a reversal.

The only weakness this setup has is if the opponent rolls TOWARDS the corner. You should still have more time than your opponent to throw out a normal if they do so, so you should be able to throw out a 5B without too much worry. Most people planning to use a reversal will emergency/neutral tech into it to get the most invulnerability frames, after all. But if you're anticipating a back roll for whatever reason (or an emergency/neutral tech), THEN you can use jC instead of jB. Just know that you'll be giving your opponent a "get out of the corner free" card.

Now, to be fair, you can do some of these things off D. Inferno Divider -> Axe Kick. But I don't think you have enough time to do the jump part of the oki safely/effectively.

Anyone care to chime in? These are all things I've gleaned personally, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are better ways of setting up combos/more effective setups/etc.

[VR-Raiden]

HF knockdown is definitely better than ID knockdown in terms of oki. Last I checked, you still can't get a safejump off HF (falling jump B/C lost to immediate tech CID), but its pretty close to it so stuff you were talking about can still work often it seems.

Air BS gets you the best knockdown period but it might not be worth the damage you lose by shortening combos to end with it (in most combos?)

[Jackie Chandler]

Last I checked, you still can't get a safejump off HF (falling jump B/C lost to immediate tech CID), but its pretty close to it so stuff you were talking about can still work often it seems.

Air BS gets you the best knockdown period but it might not be worth the damage you lose by shortening combos to end with it (in most combos?)

Actually, I'm pretty sure a floated Tsuika gives you more time to act before your opponent's wakeup than air Blood Scythe, but that *might* be dependent on how far above the ground you use the Blood Scythe, and how far your opponent is above/below you.

Also, if your jumps after Tsuika are getting punished by C. Inferno Divider, you're probably not using it soon enough after the initial part of Hell's Fang, or your opponent isn't floated. The goal is to hit your opponent with it when they're high enough in the air as possible, so that there's more time before they hit the ground. It is worth noting, however, that this safe jump loses out to most Distortion reversals, like Jayoku and Asura. All the other reversals I've tested with the exception of Mu's (Ragna's, Jin's, Makoto's, Litchi's, Azrael's, Izayoi's, Tsubaki's, and Kagura's) whiff or can be blocked with this safe jump setup.

[VR-Raiden]

Actually, I'm pretty sure a floated Tsuika gives you more time to act before your opponent's wakeup than air Blood Scythe, but that *might* be dependent on how far above the ground you use the Blood Scythe, and how far your opponent is above/below you.

Also, if your jumps after Tsuika are getting punished by C. Inferno Divider, you're probably not using it soon enough after the initial part of Hell's Fang, or your opponent isn't floated. The goal is to hit your opponent with it when they're high enough in the air as possible, so that there's more time before they hit the ground. It is worth noting, however, that this safe jump loses out to most Distortion reversals, like Jayoku and Asura. All the other reversals I've tested with the exception of Mu's (Ragna's, Jin's, Makoto's, Litchi's, Azrael's, Izayoi's, Tsubaki's, and Kagura's) whiff or can be blocked with this safe jump setup.

You're right I just tried it again. I had been doing the Tsuika too late when I tried it before, doing it earlier so it hits them high up as possible lets you safejump CID, awesome thanks.

I was looking at framedata on the wiki for some of those reversals to see what speed it loses to and noticed the BBCP startup on CID is 9 now? Wasn't it always 7f? And Mu DP says its 14f, is that correct? that seems wrong but idk. If that's the case it's weird that it loses to a slower reversal but that may be because you have to delay the Tsuika more on Mu than on Ragna?

[Jackie Chandler]

You're right I just tried it again. I had been doing the Tsuika too late when I tried it before, doing it earlier so it hits them high up as possible lets you safejump CID, awesome thanks.

I was looking at framedata on the wiki for some of those reversals to see what speed it loses to and noticed the BBCP startup on CID is 9 now? Wasn't it always 7f? And Mu DP says its 14f, is that correct? that seems wrong but idk. If that's the case it's weird that it loses to a slower reversal but that may be because you have to delay the Tsuika more on Mu than on Ragna?

Glad I could be of assistance~. I still owe you for all those amazing Yu tutorials though, haha.

And the reason Mu's DP works but Ragna's doesn't is because of the guardpoint on it. When doing the safe jump off Tsuika against C. Inferno Divider, the attacking Ragna's air move whiffs during the invincibility, giving him enough time to land and block. When doing it on Mu's DP, however, he hits the guardpoint, and the hitstun on that freezes him in place long enough for the DP to connect. So when you think of it that way, Mu's DP probably is active on the 14th frame, but the guardpoint on it might make it seem like it hits sooner if it takes effect.

EDIT: Oh, and in case it's worth mentioning, I tested this by setting the dummy to do the Ragna safe jump setup, instead of just recording it to DP after waking up. So I was testing this with the same Tsuika timings every time.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Jackie Chandler

[Fistmaster049]

do we have a highest damage on a meter less corner throw yet?

heres an attempt

forward grab - delay DS - Dash 3C - 22C dc - 5B - 5C - 5D(2) - D ID = 3560 damage

[Lucalibur]

Not worth it because the difference in damage is insignificant in comparison to the much better knockdown we get off HF.

[Callisto]

I usually stick with DID just because Axe Kick never misses but Tsuika whiffs the majority of the time I try to use it in the corner :/

[floatwater]

They're probably too high then, slightly delay follow up.

[KayEff]

there's always 22C dc oki. it's surprisingly versatile.

[VR-Raiden]

there's always 22C dc oki. it's surprisingly versatile.

Just trying that now and I do like the looks of that, might be a good alternative in combos where you already used HF earlier, like midscreen-to-corner 2D RC combos. Lets you do all the stuff a good corner HF knockdown does.

example I'm looking at:

5B 5C 2D(RC) dash 5C 5D(1) HF 5B delay 5C jC djC BE dash 5C 5D 22C(DC) - 4322, vs 4553 if you end with the DID.

[Fistmaster049]

Got a CT combo that might be worth noting

requires CH and corner

CH 5C- CT - 5B - 3C - 22C - DS - 5C - j.c j.C - BE - 5C - 5D(2) - D ID into axe kick = 5457 damage

Uses 25 meter and builds 24

And with even more resources you could ..

Same come up till the 5D(2) after BE, instead of D ID - 10% HP OD - D ID into axe kick - j.D - BS - CS = 6817 damage or if more OD with OD CS = 7177 damage

potential?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Fistmaster049

[LuminAbyss]

I haven't been getting CH 5C > CT to work. Anyone else having this issue?

[Fistmaster049]

I haven't been getting CH 5C > CT to work. Anyone else having this issue?

I didn't check that it was actually connecting derp, needs crouching too

Works does connect anywhere on screen though as well as on the whole cast, so ..its a bit specific but can't argue with that damage I guess

Edited November 8, 2013 by Fistmaster049
derp

[LuminAbyss]

I figured it needed crouching, yeah. You could probably do it on air hit too, though. Just omit the 5B and that combo would be solid, good stuff.

[Tong]

do we have a highest damage on a meter less corner throw yet?

heres an attempt

forward grab - delay DS - Dash 3C - 22C dc - 5B - 5C - 5D(2) - D ID = 3560 damage

There's: Throw> delay DS> 5C> j.C> j.C> j.214C> 5C> 5D> DID

Does 3591 but it's kinda hard to get right on some characters and time limit is tight.

[Fistmaster049]

There's: Throw> delay DS> 5C> j.C> j.C> j.214C> 5C> 5D> DID

Does 3591 but it's kinda hard to get right on some characters and time limit is tight.

yeah I noticed that, the timing on the second j.C is pretty tight on almost everyone except Azrael and the 5C can be annoying, still good going on finding on it

I figured it needed crouching, yeah. You could probably do it on air hit too, though. Just omit the 5B and that combo would be solid, good stuff.

wow your right, works quite well off an air CH 5B too

I think I'm beginning to love Ragna's CT, in corners it seems to net him almost Extend damage for just 25 meter

Edited November 8, 2013 by Fistmaster049

[VR-Raiden]

Just trying that now and I do like the looks of that, might be a good alternative in combos where you already used HF earlier, like midscreen-to-corner 2D RC combos. Lets you do all the stuff a good corner HF knockdown does.

example I'm looking at:

5B 5C 2D(RC) dash 5C 5D(1) HF 5B delay 5C jC djC BE dash 5C 5D 22C(DC) - 4322, vs 4553 if you end with the DID.

after actually trying in training, I need to correct myself, you can't do the exact same nj.B oki set up after it like you can from HF knockdown. The HF pushes you out a bit so the j.B is spaced to hit forward rolls, in the 22C DC case you're too close and it loses to forward roll. However if you do bj.C, it will catch either back or forward roll and safejumps! also hits OTG if they stay down a really long time (not likely I'd think). If they delay neutral tech you can meaty something quick. It's a closer bj.C than from j.BS like I was talking about before, so better (for when they late neutral tech).

Edited November 8, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[Tofu Warrior]

Sorry if this is old news, but I figured out something cool:

TK cross-up Blood Scythe > RC > forward airdash > j.C > j.D > 5D (1) xx 214B > delay 214D > sj. B > j. C > dj. C > j. D xx DID > ender (2731 damage)

Combo on hit, mix-up on block. Damage isn't great, but it looks stylish lol.

[Elochai]

6D combo that requires 75 meter, OD, & 50% HP:

6D CH > j.D whiff > 3C > 22C > 5AB > 5C > j.C > j.214C > 66 5D > OD cancel > 623D~j.214D > falling j.214B > j.214D > jump back j.D > j.214D > 632146D

DMG: 6397

Edited November 10, 2013 by Elochai

[KayEff]

(and OD)

[Tofu Warrior]

Anyone got any combos into Astral Heat?

[Elochai]

Anyone got any combos into Astral Heat?

In the corner, anything into air hit 5D or 22C will work. Throw/back throw go into astral in the corner as well.

Midscreen, stuff > air hit 5D works too. Stuff > 6C (2) > astral works depending on the spacing.

Edit: I forgot about CH 3C midscreen as well.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Elochai

[floatwater]

Here's pretty common ones

6B > 6A > J.C > BE > 5D > Astral [Corner Only]

5B > 5C > 6C > Astral (Slight delay after 6C and on crouching opp.) [Midscreen & Corner]

B+C > Astral [Midscreen & Corner]

4B+C > Astral (Delay) [Corner only]

Bnb (GH route) > 5D > Astral

[KayEff]

22C will work

22C > astral won't work in most cases.