[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[Myoro]

No dice. Lauger is what gets the combo from midscreen to corner, so you'd have to cover a looooot of distance regardless of how you use 236C. However the time you land after an IAD and the timing they have to roll is still our advantage. Only option they'd have is DP or jump out, and ignis is right there with us.

 

Sounds like a solid deal! Should we add it to the 1.1 combo list?

[NecroTheReaper]

I guess. I can't imagine when we'd need FULL corner carry and have ignis active, since typically this means we're losing, but its nice for when you find a character you don't want out of the corner

[Myoro]

Maybe someone rolls past you outta the corner and you have 50+ Ignis and punish with 5B?

[NecroTheReaper]

You could just do our standard punish instead of usin ignis, set up some corner oki, maybe even a vinum glitch setup.

[NecroTheReaper]

Hey Myoro, I have a secret to tell you that I'm using to invent awesome new stuff. Here it is.

5B>3C>6D>IADj.B>2C(or 662C) combos.

http://youtu.be/5IIGp7TPAwQ

[Tsukahara]

Nice!  thanks for the video Necro. Definitely going to start using this.

[NecroTheReaper]

Note though: 2C>6C>214C does not work on Tager. That's the only person I couldn't get any variation to work on

[Myoro]

Hey Myoro, I have a secret to tell you that I'm using to invent awesome new stuff. Here it is.

5B>3C>6D>IADj.B>2C(or 662C) combos.

http://youtu.be/5IIGp7TPAwQ

 

WHOA Awesome!!! *_*

[Myoro]

So, uh, sorry for double post, but I gotta ask. Necro, is there some special way to get 662C to work after 3C>6D>IAD j.b? They keep teching before I hit the ground -_-"

[NecroTheReaper]

Well the IAD has to be as fast as possible. Its a bit easier to start off by cutting the microdash and do the Leis path I also showed.

Edit: an easy way to squeeze out a bit more corner carry for 1300 ignis out of our usual BnB is after Leis, do 3C>6D>IAD j.A>j.B>6B>sj.B>j.C>j.236C>j.214B

[Myoro]

Soooo, I'm starting to think we should make some optimal corner, and close to corner combos for 4D, 6C, and 41236B starters, because they have SMP and need to be addressed differently.

 

Right now I'm going to use these ones I'm listing, but I want better.

 

Corner: (Ground hit=(g), air hit=(a))

 

(g)6C>236C>214A>41236B>5B>5C>j.B>j.236C>665B>5C>4D>3C [4035DMG/+28HT/-2000IG]

 

(g)6C>236C>214A>41236B>5B>5C(1)>j.B>j.236C>3C [3494DMG/+25HT/-1000IG]

 

(g)41236B>5B>3C>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>4D>3C [4151DMG/+29HT/-2000IG]

 

(g)41236B>5B>3C>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>22A [4023DMG/+28HT/-1000IG]

 

(g)41236B>5B>3C>236C~214A>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>5C>4D>3C [4532DMG/+4HT/-2000IG]---\

                                                                                                                                                                                             }Both make the heat they use

(g)41236B>5B>3C>236C~214A>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>3C [4295DMG/+3HT/-1000IG]-------------/

 

(a)4D>3C>236C~214A>665C>jump back>j.C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [3579DMG/+25HT/-2000IG]

 

(a)4D>5C>neutral jump>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5C>2C>236C>3C [3403 DMG/+24HT/-1000IG] 

 

(This 1000 IG version is tricky for some characters, but I think it may be possible on everyone if you change the timing on the 236C so that it hits on the last active frame. and occasionally add a microdash to the 3C, I know it works on jin)

 

(a)4D>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>6B>TKj.236C>3C [3164DMG/+22HT/-1000IG]

 

(^ I think it works on everybody as well, it's a lot easier too. You Have to use 2C to make them go too high and have first few active frames of 236C whiff. This is how 236C>5B/3C works. the key to set up the Ideal height for many cast members is to aim for the legs with 2C not the feet or crotch.)

 

I can't do air hit 41236B starter right now, it's too late at night.

[NecroTheReaper]

Air hit 41236B is more likely to happen imo. Usually people either only get FC'd (which opens up j.B>j.C loops) or air hit. Off air hit you can do:

(a) 41236B>6B>2369C>2C>6C>236C>214A>(5B>2C>4D>)3C

You seem to be use to connecting 5B after 236C, so maybe you could test this:

(a) 41236B>5C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C

And when you have to desummon ignis in the corner, do you back off or what kinda pressure do you guys do.

Now slightly off topic: who wishes there was a skin to play as Relius' younger self as depicted in some of the Bloodedge Experience posters?

[Myoro]

Air hit 41236B is more likely to happen imo. Usually people either only get FC'd (which opens up j.B>j.C loops) or air hit. Off air hit you can do:

(a) 41236B>6B>2369C>2C>6C>236C>214A>(5B>2C>4D>)3C

You seem to be use to connecting 5B after 236C, so maybe you could test this:

(a) 41236B>5C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C

And when you have to desummon ignis in the corner, do you back off or what kinda pressure do you guys do.

Now slightly off topic: who wishes there was a skin to play as Relius' younger self as depicted in some of the Bloodedge Experience posters?

 

3 things,

 

1.thanks for the suggestion! ^_^

 

2. Don't run away, that's the worst thing you can do on just about anyone who isn't Tager or Kagura. after a de-summon the list of best-worst things you can do goes as follows:

 

Best: Solo combo>solo pressure>run away>get hit :worst

 

My greatest recommendation is falling j.B/C their wake-up because you score a free solo combo if it hits, still retain most of your solo pressure options upon landing, can safely guard against DPs. If you're ever by yourself, just keep pressuring as if you had Ignis but be weary that your opponent can do stuff now. Usually the opponent will ether be so overjoyed at their psudo-freedom, that they'll do something stupid like try to anti-air you after 3C when you can doublejump and j.C them for justice, or they'll think Relius is somehow powerless now that Ignis is gone and go for blood while unbeknownst to them you can still use your solo tactics and RC combos.

 

If you can get them in pressure, you can ether waste time with IAD j.A and 5C in your blockstrings, or you can go for a solo combo. Doing ether will get Ignis back in no time while keeping the opponent corner locked.

 

Another simple solution is "Never run out of Ignis" which is made possible by a skillful combination of tight budgeting in neutral and mix-up, Ignis saving combos, and successful Ignis oki leading into de-summon combos for a replenished Ignis.

 

3. Yes I do. I think most characters will have a potential alternate costume by BB4, and I could see this being Relius'.

[NecroTheReaper]

I guess solo pressure always makes me nervous since they give 7/13 of thr cast members a DP, and most of those can change the outcome of the fight. usually if I do solo pressure, its either A stagger or 2C>6C>41236B (this wastes plenty of time), though I find myself either getting killed by rolls.

[Myoro]

I usually do j.B/C start>microdash>any combination of 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C that leaves me just in range of 3C>3C>jump>BAIT EVERYTHING>j.B/j.C>microdash

 

If I have respect I'll do stuff like 5B>665B or 3C>delay>airdash j.A>j.B>microdash

 

If I wanna get tricky and they're not all the way in the corner I'll do: j.B/j.C>microdash>3C>jump over>j.B crossup (Have a plan for if 3C hits)

 

You can use 41236B off of anything so long as you don't think they'll expect it. max range 5B or 3C>41236B>2A is a good pressure reset.

[NecroTheReaper]

This is funny oki right here. Do 3C>delayed 41236B and see how many people jump out to just to get air grabbed. Really funny after a CH x>6C 41236B(w) midscreen

[Myoro]

Air hit 41236B is more likely to happen imo. Usually people either only get FC'd (which opens up j.B>j.C loops) or air hit. Off air hit you can do:

(a) 41236B>6B>2369C>2C>6C>236C>214A>(5B>2C>4D>)3C

You seem to be use to connecting 5B after 236C, so maybe you could test this:

(a) 41236B>5C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C

"(a) 41236B>6B>TKj.236C>2C>6C>236C~214A>(5B>2C>4D>)3C"     [3165(3594)DMG/+22(25)HT/-1000(-2000)

 

"(a) 41236B>5C(1)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C"     [3442DMG/+24HT/IG free]

 

It looks like it should work on anyone. You have to hit their legs with 41236B to get 5C to come out after, and you have to neutral jump into j.C if you're near the corner yourself or the spacing for 236C will not be to your liking. How 236C>3C works is that you use the little arcing motion 2C and 6C make the opponent do to make the first few active frames of 236C whiff so that the recovery is lessened and you can get 3C or 5B out.

 

I took the liberty of making s'more combos

 

(a) 41236B>5C(2)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [3527DMG/+25HT/IG free]

 

minor adjustment, but unless you're going for j.214B, 5C(2) always seems to net a little more damage.

 

(a) 41236B>5C(2)>forward jump>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>3C [4123DMG/+2HT/IG free]

 

This makes what it spends during the combo. you can start with 0 heat and do this combo. Requires that 41236B hit high enough that 5C can connect.

 

(a) 41236B>5B>5C>j.B>delay>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>236C>3C [3507DMG/+25HT/IG free]

 

I think that this is the safest route though.

 

(a) 41236B>5B>6B>TKj.236C>665C>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>3C [3806DMG/+/-0HT/IG free]

 

you can do this one if you have 1 starting heat.

 

Here's some that actually use Ignis:

 

(a) 41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>3C [4246DMG/+3HT/-1000IG]

 

(a) 41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>5A+B>5C>2C>4D>3C [4615DMG/+3HT/-2000IG]

 

(a) 41236B>5B>236C~214A>665C>jump back>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>4D>3C [4084DMG/+29HT/-2000IG]

[Myoro]

So I've been up to fiendish and depraved things again. I've discovered another lovely use for 236D during corner 3C oki. it involves 236D neutral jump to bait rolls and DPs and stuff, and then a second neutral jump which will cross them up because of 236D's pull. Very tricky because no one ever does expect a neutral jump to cross up.

[Myoro]

So I've been looking for alternative uses of our moves.

 

I've accidentally used 236D at neutral when my opponent was beginning to rush me down on a few occasions. Realizing my mistake I jumped back out of the way, but my opponent still found themselves landing in 236D's range and being hit or forced into blocking it as it gave me an unexpected pressure/combo/mix-up opportunity. I wonder if there are any situations where we could reliably use 236D to have Ignis function as a stationary trap to catch rush ins. Since it happened the first time I've tried with some success.

 

I've also seen use in using 236D to counter-bait foes expecting Tus when zoning with Ignis. (Typically after 214B, j.236C~j.214B, or j.2D.) It's even more plus on block than Tus, it catches people off guard, and it keeps the wife safe so I'd definitely consider this use. (If you use it while Ignis is a little off the ground, not only will it cover a truly massive horizontal and vertical area only surpassed by Tus, but it'll mess with your opponent's instincts on how to block it.) 

[NecroTheReaper]

Its also funny because you can use it at varying heights. If you use j.2D and Ignis is above them (likr her feet at their head) no one expects 236D to hit low. Also looks really funny when you set up UBs this way.

[Myoro]

Its also funny because you can use it at varying heights. If you use j.2D and Ignis is above them (likr her feet at their head) no one expects 236D to hit low. Also looks really funny when you set up UBs this way.

 

I have a real fun way to set this up. after the 41236B in any midscreen combo you can to 5C/3C/5B>236C~214A>663C>236D +Jump j.C. Ignis will be up high so it sometimes doesn't register as an unblockable because 236D will whiff if they crouch. In reality it is, because if they don't stand j.C will get them.

 

I feel like Relius' amazing reset potential is the reason he can scarcely do over 4500 damage.

[NecroTheReaper]

Did our 5A get nerfed? I havnt been able to hit valk out of wolf dash j.A since the patch, even when mashing the button as hard as I can.

[Shockna]

I have a real fun way to set this up. after the 41236B in any midscreen combo you can to 5C/3C/5B>236C~214A>663C>236D +Jump j.C. Ignis will be up high so it sometimes doesn't register as an unblockable because 236D will whiff if they crouch. In reality it is, because if they don't stand j.C will get them.

 

I feel like Relius' amazing reset potential is the reason he can scarcely do over 4500 damage.

Are there any decent videos displaying these setups? I can't seem to get the timing right.

[Myoro]

Are there any decent videos displaying these setups? I can't seem to get the timing right.

 

I should mention that it's midscreen going to corner (so that 236C~214A>663C can connect.)

 

I wish I had a video capture device (or whatever) that I could show you. For the one listed you just want to wait until the latter part of the 214A's hitstun to use 3C so that she can use 236D low enough to hit their head.

 

Anyway, to do the [236D + j.C] unblockable all you gotta do is cancel into 236D from 3C like you would 236C, but then hold the 9 direction to jump and use j.C in a way that it'll hit them immediately on their wakeup.

 

How does one make vids using a PS3? It'd be super cool if I could make combo and set-up vids.

[Myoro]

Did our 5A get nerfed? I havnt been able to hit valk out of wolf dash j.A since the patch, even when mashing the button as hard as I can.

 

There's certain situations where w.brkj.A beats out 5A (even pre-patch.) Really you should only mash 5A during an instant block when they are going for another wj.A.