[CPEX] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

When you tested those characters, how'd you test the fuzzy? Cuz the way I was doin it, all of them could crouch by the time j.C came out. I ask cuz I use to test it just by seeing if the computer blocked it, but the computer is retarded and will block if you're close enough to them. When I put Relius on record and tried to crouch between the hits, Relius just wiffed.

[Errol]

if you're crouching by the time j.C comes out, that should mean you are being too slow. fuzzies don't give time to crouch. that is why it is a fuzzy. if it will hit their standing box it will hit them.

[NecroTheReaper]

Its not that, its that the hitbox of j.c wouldnt reach so it let you crouch under it. If you try to switch to low blocking after j.B with these characters, the j.C would straight out wiff. Any lower and you'd either land before you could jump or j.B wouldn't come out period. I tested them by recording tbe fuzzy, block the j.B standing, try to switch to crouch blocking, and if it hit, I'd say it was a success.

[Errol]

Yeah, you're just messing it up. It works, how precise you have to be varies with how big their guard hitbox is.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well regardless, Lich said a while back (like page 12 or somethin) that due to the risk of screwin it up, its not really worth using on EVERY cast member. I guess if ypu grind it out enough and have perfect execution its viable, but its really tight.

[Errol]

Yeah definitely. note that you probably need to test more against blocking than on hit. Plat's guard box while standing is actually pretty huge for example.

[NecroTheReaper]

Is there any way to combo the fuzzy off a 214C lockdown without being unsafe other than using a rapid? Get someone to block it gives you plenty of time to mix them up, but the fuzzy is useless without j.2D. If not, its no big deal, just have to spend an extra 1300 ignis after, but this would be cheaper for oki.

And Errol, you startin to pick up interest in Relius now or do you just like discussing your most hated? xD either is cool, I'm just curious.

[Errol]

nope, stuff pops up in the sidebar and I read it and say something.

[Myoro]

Is there any way to combo the fuzzy off a 214C lockdown without being unsafe other than using a rapid? Get someone to block it gives you plenty of time to mix them up, but the fuzzy is useless without j.2D. If not, its no big deal, just have to spend an extra 1300 ignis after, but this would be cheaper for oki.

And Errol, you startin to pick up interest in Relius now or do you just like discussing your most hated? xD either is cool, I'm just curious.

 

Can't you just:

 

BlahBlahBlah>3C>jump>last hit of 214C is blocked Ignis starts recovering from 214C>falling j.B>dj.C fuzzy>Ignis has recovered and you use j.2D

 

This way, in theory, if 3C miraculously does hit the last hit of 214C will act like 6D and confirm out combo for us.

 

Try that. I'll be back in the lab come Monday.

 

I like to think Errol is secretly tsundere for Relius players, or at least secretly tsundere for Necro and I.

[Myoro]

Can anyone teach me how to bait bursts and DPs with some accuracy? Set-ups, mentality, any other delicious tid bits of knowledge?

 

Many thanks.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well, in order to firstly discourage them from dp'ing, I use 22BD oki at least once on characters like Ragna or Kagura. If they DP, they get punished (though their reversal DDs can beat this setup). Also, empty jumps can convince people its time to dp, so if they're not respecting, just hold back on your empty jump and be ready to tech grabs. Dp baiting really isn't just something you can do all tje time because some people are more aggressive while others are more passive on defense.

Bursts on the other hand have a lot of opportunities that I've seen you can bait with. I wish I was able to jump cancel>block after 3C more intentionally, but typically, you can ley for free after 3C, 6C air hit, or after haas in the corner. These are places where people typically burst the most. Other times you can bait a burst after leis with ley, but this is more unsafe since they can air tech before you recover. I just ley spam in these few areas when I feel people wont respect my combos.

Also, if its close to the end of a match, you both have low hp, and you get a reversal vinum off, you can 6C>ley for trolling or UB setup for being legit on grounded opponents. 6C is more preferable if they were hit airborne.

[Iron Savior]

What is it that makes people fall for 22c after a fullscreen knockdown so much?, it's so easy to avoid!, but i've won matches thanks to it somehow

[NecroTheReaper]

With or without ignis? There's a different reaction to both xD

[Iron Savior]

With Ignis i guess, i don't remember if Lauger launches people far enough to count as a fulscreen knockdown

But what i mean when they fall for it is they try to tech but don't even block it and they get knocked down again, multiple times in a row even!

And what determines where 22c will come out?, i usually use it fullscreen, but i've had it come out when the opponent isn't that far and still hit
 

[NecroTheReaper]

Its a set distance, I guess it just has a moderately wide hitbox. Usually people are all like "I'm gonna smack yo wife" and end up forgetting Relius has lugia. Midscreen 236C does cause knockdown though.

[Justice7541]

You're most likely hitting them out of jump or dash startup, it's pretty easy to forget Relius can hit you from fullscreen.

[Myoro]

Well, in order to firstly discourage them from dp'ing, I use 22BD oki at least once on characters like Ragna or Kagura. If they DP, they get punished (though their reversal DDs can beat this setup). Also, empty jumps can convince people its time to dp, so if they're not respecting, just hold back on your empty jump and be ready to tech grabs. Dp baiting really isn't just something you can do all tje time because some people are more aggressive while others are more passive on defense.

Bursts on the other hand have a lot of opportunities that I've seen you can bait with. I wish I was able to jump cancel>block after 3C more intentionally, but typically, you can ley for free after 3C, 6C air hit, or after haas in the corner. These are places where people typically burst the most. Other times you can bait a burst after leis with ley, but this is more unsafe since they can air tech before you recover. I just ley spam in these few areas when I feel people wont respect my combos.

Also, if its close to the end of a match, you both have low hp, and you get a reversal vinum off, you can 6C>ley for trolling or UB setup for being legit on grounded opponents. 6C is more preferable if they were hit airborne.

 

Ah thanks Necro!

[NecroTheReaper]

Anyway, kinda wish Lich was here, but what MUs do you guys think are in our favor?

[Myoro]

Kagura, Tager, Tsubaki, Nu, Noel, Ragna, Plat, Bullet, Haku, Azrael a maybe one or two others that I can't think of right now.

 

I'm kinda on the fence about calling Arakune, Rachel, Mu or Valk a good MU, for us at this point.

 

The rest I'd say are 5:5 with the exception of Koko and Amane who just seem to shut me down.

 

This is personal MU exp so don't read too much into it.

[Errol]

makoto

[Poultrygeist]

Amane is a definite pain in the ass.  We don't have a good way out of his drill pressure since our only defensive options get stuffed by him.  

 

 

Hakumen feels like a weird one.  It feels like he SHOULD be bad for us but we have ways of throwing his defense off with our pressure.  You just can't auto pilot against him.

[Myoro]

Amane is a definite pain in the ass.  We don't have a good way out of his drill pressure since our only defensive options get stuffed by him.  

 

 

Hakumen feels like a weird one.  It feels like he SHOULD be bad for us but we have ways of throwing his defense off with our pressure.  You just can't auto pilot against him.

 

For amane I'm just upset that his C normals shut down Ignis for free, often netting us as well. I feel like those should be projectiles, (or if they are, they should not harm Ignis)

 

My best friend plays Haku so I know a great deal of what they can do. You could say I've gained a healthy immunity to Haku's BS. Fighting Haku is less about your character and more about you as a player.

[NecroTheReaper]

For Amane, its not bad, but EXTREMELY uncomfortable to play the way you need to play this MU. I got myself some fresh amane exp today, and you have to throw away everything you know about Relius. Pretend that you're... idk, Terumi. You have to go for the most direct, full-on retard (no offense) approach methods like full screen dashing. And you will think you'll be punished every time. Then you mix it up with ley to avoid 2/5C and do an IAD or dash up some more and you're in. Every time you do this, its playing RPS that's really in your advantage if you win.

[Myoro]

So not to sidetrack from this discussion, but a useful bit of info for our CH3C.

 

We can do CH3C>5D>665C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C>Superjump>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B for [3400DMG/24HT/IG=9000]

 

Does more damage than our standard 3C punish and gives us another full bar to play with. This may be common knowledge already or something, but I thought it cool.

 

In the corner we can do CH3C>5D>(Optional microdash for spacing)>5C>(jump for spacing)>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C [3596DMG/+25HT/+full IG]

 

It feels super easy to do and I already tested it on all the trouble makers from my earlier test with success.

[SkagMaster]

'Sup people? I plan on subbing Relius, so what would be the biggest challenge when it comes to using him?