[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Justice7541]

Use Relius 6D/214A/214C to block Sabers. It seems pointless but Izayoi is throwing those Sabers either to make you block them, so she can build stocks, or to make you jump so she can play a more advantageous air neutral game. Saber is really + on block but if you can beat it out (like Relius can, easily) it's a free in on her.

j.2/6D will beat her DP on the ground if spaced properly. That means if you have doll out you can feel free to jump around a bunch since Izayoi isn't likely to try to keep DPing you once you've counterhit her out of DP a few times. Her AA sucks otherwise so just space her properly and air approaches are also free.

If she does get stocks and go into GA, 2C blows up a lot of her approach options and can stuff dash mixups even during rushdown. Jump her sabers whenever she throws them, Saber > teleport can cross you up depending on spacing and in my experience it's really annoying to block. I'm not 100% sure whether Relius can safely punish a whiffed Saber teleport by jumping into j.C or if she can DP coming out of the teleport, but give it a shot.

Once you're in pressure, go full yolo even if you don't have doll. Izayoi buttons are pretty slow so she's not likely to mash that much, it's not super difficult to sneak in Gad Leis (or whichever is the pull-in scissors) or a jump cancel so long as you're not super predictable about it. If she doesn't hard read you on a Leis or a jump your worse case scenario is getting CH'd by 6A or something which she can't combo off of.

That's my experience on the Izayoi end anyway, but I'm bad at fighting Relius in general.

[Speakeasy]

I just picked up Izayoi and she's turning out to be more complicated than my other characters are. I've got a few noob questions.

What does Izayoi's gameplan look like outside of "get stocks then kill"? Or is that actually it?

Should I be trying to get a full stack of stocks before going into GA, or is 4 fine to put on the beat down with? Obviously I'll switch up the number of stocks to catch people off guard, but what would be a good rule of thumb?

What does Izayoi's pressure look like in and out of GA? Is three even a point to rushing down outside of GA? If not, what do you do to build up some stocks? What do we do in GA?

Which normals does Izayoi get the most mileage off in neutral?

How do you get people to respect you so you can start the real mindgames and shenanigans? More specifically, what should you be trying to get them to put up with (ie sabre teleport to make them jump whenever you throw a sabre out)?

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[crimsonstardust]

So generally her game plan is to make people afraid to hit buttons and force people to eat mix ups and use her mobility to weave in and out of ranges. Generally her main neutral normal in both modes up is 5B, it's got good range and can start pressure with mixes of sonic saber, stance canceling, and in GA mode you can use stance canceling to go for overheads or fake them and go low or even start a throw game also. However this can get mashed out of so you want to mix it with keeping pressure with 5B stance cancel, 5B stance cancel and such. Other things in neutral is using sonic saber, 623B/C 6A. As far as stocks go, generally 6 is a good number to try to aim around, any more is really cherry on the top, as you mentioned there are going to be times where you may have to go in with less than you want, that's where your gonna have to experiment and find how that works with you, one thing to remember you can overdrive for stocks but again that is a call you have to make as an Izayoi player.

Now as far as getting people to respect her, it's hard, you have to do a lot of baiting with her movement in GA sometimes and other times people will be afraid to hit buttons if you can get them too, just don't yolo hover dash jC causes that's like air dashing at someone in neutral just to get anti aired, jA can trade or beat a lot of moves and works great as an anti air. Pressure is where it can get tricky with her, that's gonna consist of the 5B stance cancel I mentioned earlier and using stuff like hover dash air sonic saber or mixing up your approaches and what not, teleport mix ups should never ever be done raw, you will get punished for it. Using D sonic saber can force a mix up if you have the extra stocks to spare, especially with how it takes more it's usage is a little limited. 3C in GA mode gets over looked a little, you can use this as an escape tool (example is if some is air dashing at you, you can use 3C to go under them), RC it to go for mix ups, score fatals, and sometimes can get you around in place of walking, hover dashing air dashing etc, just don't use it too much cause it can be punished.

Well hopefully that helps, I'm not a pro with the character but I really love playing Izayoi~

[Justice7541]

With regard to the questions, I find it's best to go into GA as soon as possible. If you happen to get 3-4 stocks you can GA and try to hit the more meter-conservative combos (i.e. 5C 3C 236B~214A etc.) whereas if you manage to get a 6-8 stock combo you can afford to be a bit more liberal with stock-to-damage conversion (i.e. with 236C~6D~214B combos).

The nice about Izayoi in 1.1 is that her new airdash and reduced cost on D teleport makes it much easier to pressure without burning stocks constantly, so you can very easily do a stockless mixup into a 1-stock combo and still get good oki. Before you were basically required to do 236D for mixup then burn two stocks for the followup combo so you were looking at 3 stocks minimum for every hit.

[Justice7541]

Fun Trans-am thing I found:

 

On crouching opponent, off a close dash j.B/C, 5C 2C(2) > Trans-Am > 5B 2C(2), 2A 2C(2) 2A 2C(2), 5A 2C(2) (3.5k) to:

 

1) TK Noir Edge reset, j.214D j.C j.C j.236C~j.214D j.C j.C j.236C~D 5C 2C(1) sj.BC dj.BC j.236C~D > Phorizer (4.5k)

2) 3C reset 5C sj.BC dj.BC j.236C~D 5A 2C(1) sj.BC dj.BC j.236C~D Phorizer (4.8k)

3) 6B reset 2C(2) [2A 2C(2)]x3 5A 2C(2) (4.5k) > another reset OR 236C~6D Phorizer (an extra 500~ damage)

 

If you have the meter but not enough stocks you can ODC the first 2C, do 5C 2C, 2A 5C 2C > Trans-am, 5C 2C > above.  The TK Noir Edge is a super fast overhead but requires 4 stocks to follow up meaning you have to start with 8 stocks, but you can reduce the stock burn by doing a simpler combo like j.C dj.C j.236C~D 5A 2C 236B~214A 2B Phorizer.  Either way it's good fun.

[7heTexanRebel]

I'm having an IMPOSSIBLE time using Phorizer as a reversal, what am I doing wrong? Most of the time I get 236C, just normal 5C, or sometimes nothing at all despite having no issues doing it in combos or just throwing it out there hoping they push buttons. Do I have to input the entire thing in 1 frame after getting out of block stun? I'm seriously having more luck using 6A than Phorizer as a reversal.

[crimsonstardust]

Well depends when you try to use it, I find the motion for it kinda hard to use as just a raw reversal, I generally try to use it when I know I can score a counter hit when some one throws like an overhead or a long range move or something. It's more of a execution thing while under pressure, I generally find at least for me when I'm sort of panicking and try to stick it out is usually when I can't get it to reversal.

[Seventh-Prodigy]

[...] I'm seriously having more luck using 6A than Phorizer as a reversal.

 

What a nightmare. 6A is definitely not a reversal (However, it's surprisingly useful for calling out some overheads!). If anything, you should just Counter Assault if you don't want to risk messing up Phorizer.

You can buffer the 236236C motion while teching if you're trying to do it on wake-up.

[Justice7541]

Do 12362361C, same motion as IB Jayoku. It'll give you an IB too so if you botch the super input or they do an airtight string you'll just default back into crouch block.

[Justice7541]

I like how Unlimited Izayoi actually gets worse because she goes back to 1.0 Izayoi and loses OD stock regen.

[Chaoschao222]

I like how Unlimited Izayoi actually gets worse because she goes back to 1.0 Izayoi and loses OD stock regen.

The only thing explicitly worse is her movement. She doesn't need OD stock regen because the passive meter gain and damage up far outweigh it and it's not difficult to get stocks. Especially for Unlimited Izayoi, who can get 3 stocks just because you blocked fullscreen 236C.

 

Unlimited Izayoi and 1.1 Izayoi are practically different characters; pretty much the only thing they have in common are a couple normals and Noir.

[Justice7541]

I didn't notice any difference in her stock gain on hit or block and she doesn't seem to get any sort of automatic stock regen at all. The differences I noticed were having OD properties all the time on 236D (which is good) and Phorizer (which is whatever) and having air teleport, which is funny but not really Unlimited-tier overpowered.

If they normalized her damage and health a bit she could almost pass for a real character. Not exactly Hazama-tier "infinite airtight blockstrings with 5D while I passively drain all your health, also I have an instant command throw super now that deals Genesis-tier damage" stuff.

[Chaoschao222]

The differences I noticed

236B/C, when charged, cover more than half of the screen, do more hits, and give massive stock gain, even on block (6 on hit, 3 on block).

623B/C do the same.

623C has fullbody guardpoint during startup and while charging.

Astraea can be used immediately following a teleport.

j.22D, a standalone version of Strike Fall, exists and has a bounce effect to allow pickups, combos, loops, and more.

Trans-Am is not on a timer and instead allows 20 uses.

632146B DD in OD, which can be teleport cancelled at any time, with a base damage of 4.2k.

j.236236C DD, varying damage due to RNG, typically base damage of around 4.3k.

 

 

Add all the changes 1.1 Izayoi got to some of her normals and she's hardly comparable to U. Izayoi. U. Izayoi still isn't very "Unlimited," but she's not noticeably worse than her normal counterpart.

[Appledash-]

Oh Jesus I saw that first paragraph on recent posts in the index and thought you guys were discussing a balance patch or something.
Augh.

edit: spelling

[Seventh-Prodigy]

Has anyone tried using Izayoi's teleports during combos to bait and punish bursts? Feels like you could throw in a 214A or something at a certain point in a combo if you think they'll burst. I know the teleports have some inv frames, so I figured it was worth looking into. Unfortunately she doesn't have many good normals she can jump cancel.

[crimsonstardust]

I've had it happen a few times unintentionally but usually when I do burst bait intentionally its usually off like 2C or 5C in GA mode cause they are jump cancelable and I usually will just block the burst like that. Generally for me I just will bait it when I have a feeling when they will burst and usually have that 5C or 2C ready for those reads.

[crimsonstardust]

Did anyone else know that 2C has like a vacuum like effect on block? Cause it was news to me when I was messing with blockstring ideas.

[Rhannmah]

I think every Izayoi player does. It's an integral part of her gain art pressure and mixup game. It's one of the most + on block normals in the game, reeling them in and recovering really fast, leaving you at +5 without the need to stance cancel. You can pretty much do whatever you want after that.

[StylisH]

I think every Izayoi player does. It's an integral part of her gain art pressure and mixup game. It's one of the most + on block normals in the game, reeling them in and recovering really fast, leaving you at +5 without the need to stance cancel. You can pretty much do whatever you want after that.

If you've trained them pretty well you can fake overhead into low or straight OH. Be wary of trigger happy Ragna/Mu/Azraels

[skd]

looking at the cp2 movelists, i think trans-am is minimum 1 star, and strike fall is cancelable intro astraea

 

lmffffffffffffaaaaaaaoooooooooo

Edited August 5, 2014 by not_lunaris

[PrettyLady00]

Where are the movelists at?

[skd]

Where are the movelists at?

http://blazblue.jp/images/topics/140805/technical.pdf

[floatwater]

Randomly saw this just wanted to "confirm with a ghetto translation someone else did"

"Izayoi's Slaver Trans-Am now costs a minimum of 1 stock but will consume all stocks (previously cost exactly 4 stocks). can now follow up Strike Fall with Valkyrie Astraea"

[Rhannmah]

I wonder if trans-am will vary in duration depending on the amount of stocks used

 

I was also gonna comment on how strike fall -> valkyrie astraea isn't as useful as it sounds like unless they removed the same move proration on it, but thinking about it, being able to confirm any air hit or anti-air into huge damage sounds pretty useful

[crimsonstardust]

So I'm confused, so trans am now costs one but all your remaining stock gets used up?