[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Ichipoo]

Man, watching Koreru play is entertaining. He plays really wild at times (going for N amount of overheads in GA mode even if the previous hit lands, burning meter for Astraea > OMC > ..., etc) , sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't but it's funny to watch to say the least IMO. He occasionally trolls too, like landing 6B FOUR TIMES IN A ROW or doing N amount of GA 2Cs to an overly respectful player. One thing I do notice is that he doesn't use NM 6C at all (at least when I watch him) on crouching confirms and he just confirms into his usual +4 stock combos.

[crimsonstardust]

I dont think people are doing very well with her, but ill try to consolidate a bunch of known, obvious changes here haha

 

-Combo Rate reduced 10% in each mode (Normal mode 90% to 80%, Gain airt 80% to 70%)

-New gatlings, 5B 2B, 5B 6A, and 5C 6A.

-623b knocks back extremely far. Still possible to convert on CH.

-623c is a DP. ~13-15f startup if i can trust twitter.

-623c lots of untech time, lower launch, comboable off high hits. Uncancelable into A/B/C teleports. Unsure about D on block, but yes on hit.

-236b emergency techable on air hit.

-236b startup ~14f, combos from 5b.

-236b~214b 2b and 236b~214a 2c/5c combos on standing hit, no need to 3c launch anymore for sideswap.

-Noir Edge no longer an overhead.

-Noir Edge lessened/removed landing recovery, backwards momentum added. Can combo on midscreen CH.

-5C moves forward, makes a lot of confirms/blockstrings a lot easier.

-3C no longer JC on block

-6A no longer guard point.

-6A forces crouch. Special cancelable, 110% bonus proration on hit. A lot of hitstun i think!

-Teleport recovery LOOKS lessened, but no concrete information. I think cancel restrictions have been changed.

-jA hitstun increased (maybe indicative of attack level up).

-Airthrow bounce on hit reduced. Combos into 3C/Astral without delay.

-GA dash looks like it was changed somehow (to me, looks like faster acceleration w/ less momentum)

-Strike Fall cancelable into astraea and mirage thrusters. Ground bounces, then soft knockdown. Comboable into phorizer at all heights.

-Astraea height on hit reduced? 236C~6D 214B 5C combos on standing hit, but not 236C~6D 214B 5B 5C (If you do 3C before the 236C~6D, you can pick up with 5B)

-GA 6C Height on hit reduced? 6C 6C 623C is a midscreen combo part.

-OD Astraea changed, hits 4 times, covers a lot of space quickly.

-OD Strike fall hits 3 times.

-Trans Am consumes 1-4 stars depending on how many stocks you have (25% of the bar for every stock used)

 

Much appreciated. Man I didn't think 623C being a DP would have its start up speed slower, gonna have to keep that in mind.

[PrettyLady00]

I suppose I worded my question poorly, but I meant to ask if people had any videos of Kaichou playing cp2. Is that not allowed either?

[TD]

Your question is ok, just in the wrong thread.

If you want it answered you need to post it in the appropriate thread, the link of which was provided by ichipoo. You may ask the first question there.

Sorry for the derailment

[skd]

I suppose I worded my question poorly, but I meant to ask if people had any videos of Kaichou playing cp2. Is that not allowed either?

 

i wish there were, but...not that i know of!

[Rhannmah]

Much appreciated. Man I didn't think 623C being a DP would have its start up speed slower, gonna have to keep that in mind.

 

I wonder what happens with the invincibility when you hold 623[C]

[skd]

I wonder what happens with the invincibility when you hold 623[C]

 

invlun runs out until you release, but you can still stance cancel (you can technically dodge moves/bursts and then strance cancel)

[Ichipoo]

Still waiting for Shimotsuki's take on 2.0 Izayoi...

[crimsonstardust]

invlun runs out until you release, but you can still stance cancel (you can technically dodge moves/bursts and then strance cancel)

Wait I'm a little confused, so if you do cancel it you retain some invincibility before recovery or what's going on exactly?

[skd]

Wait I'm a little confused, so if you do cancel it you retain some invincibility before recovery or what's going on exactly?

 

yes, technically. it works the same way that it would now, just with full body invuln from frame 1 instead of head invuln from frame 4. When you hold it past the minimum startup it loses invlun (as it does now), only regaining the inv after you release the button to do the attack (at this point, you can stance cancel the move)

[PrettyLady00]

Has the stance cancel been changed in duration at all?

[skd]

Has the stance cancel been changed in duration at all?

 

no solid #'s, but if i were to eyeball it, it looks about the same. Its 25f for the cancel right now (which would be a good thing considering its a reversal, lmao).

Edited November 7, 2014 by not_lunaris

[bakahyl]

invuln runs out until you release, but you can still stance cancel (you can technically dodge moves/bursts and then strance cancel)

 

yes, technically. it works the same way that it would now, just with full body invuln from frame 1 instead of head invuln from frame 4. When you hold it past the minimum startup it loses invlun (as it does now), only regaining the inv after you release the button to do the attack (at this point, you can stance cancel the move)

 

 

Wait.. does that mean that you can use it similar as Relius' Led Ley (with shorter invul) if you just cancel the stance ?

[skd]

Wait.. does that mean that you can use it similar as Relius' Led Ley (with shorter invul) if you just cancel the stance ?

 

yes, that is the implication haha (except led ley loses to throws). you can be really cute and use it to avoid bursts. unfortunately we have no robot, or anything like that.

 

i mean, there are block/movement restrictions on teleport recovery (speaking in terms of what we know from 1.1, assuming this hasnt changed) so technically you can invuln with DP before you can block, so some "guaranteed" punishes on teleport recovery can be avoided/reversaled.

 

If you stance cancel, you'll most likely be negative though, or open for a punish depending on what kind of move they used haha. You could just let it rip though, and hit them/their extended hitbox but this is like hella rps and not really in your interest in terms of risk/reward unless you have meter/stars to make it really hurt/safe.

 

Currently, Aegis is cancelable the frame before it becomes active so If i wanted to ***theorycraft*** its most likely cancelable on frame 12 to 14 (13-15 is the estimated startup ive seen on twitter/bbs) its like...25f total duration for cancel, so 37-39f total for the entire cancel most likely. For reference, led ley is 35f, invin from head/foot/body for 31f, then punishable for 4f. It is counterhit state though, if stance cancel recovery isnt counterhit thats really, really nice for us. (The cancel would look like...1-12 invin, then 25f recovery, but with the option of DPing depending on your charge timing).

 

overall this is not THAT big, just something...cutesy.

 

on the subject of this DP, you can also input 623C~D~ABC to option select your confirm on hit/block, you'll strike fall if they get hit but if they block you RC, so you dont end up using the meter if you dont need to.

Edited November 7, 2014 by not_lunaris

[Ichipoo]

GA Izayoi combo that used 6A at 1:15. Deals 3.2k damage with j.C as a starter.

http://nico.ms/sm24884142

[Justice7541]

GA Izayoi combo that used 6A at 1:15. Deals 3.2k damage with j.C as a starter.

http://nico.ms/sm24884142

 

3.2k for 1 stock off j.C is pretty decent even if it doesn't give oki.  Could probably have ended with oki if he had another stock too.

[Rhannmah]

that was a dropped phorizer. There's better things to do after aegis blade than 5c 236c

[Ichipoo]

@ 5:15 Kureru lands a 3C Fatal. Although he drops the combo, he does give us a glimpse of what's possible but then again, this could be doable in 1.1 already?

@ 6:55 He makes the most out of being able to extend his combo with Astraea after Strike Fall and is able to kill his opponent as a result.

@ 8:00 is just jokes hahaha

http://nico.ms/sm25009047

@ 8:39

Corner 8 stock combo: stuff > 236B > 214A > 5C > TK Noir Edge (2369C) > land > j.B > j.A > j.C > Noir Edge > land > 5C > 623C (Was this doable before?)

And lol @ 10:30

http://nico.ms/sm25009161

[Rhannmah]

Corner 8 stock combo: stuff > 236B > 214A > 5C > TK Noir Edge (2369C) > land > j.B > j.A > j.C > Noir Edge > land > 5C > 623C (Was this doable before?)

 

 

nope

[Ichipoo]

@ 16:00

Normal Mode to GA Mode combo

Stuff > 236B > 214A > 2B > 5C > 623C > RC > 5D > 3C > 236C~6D > GA Stuff

http://nico.ms/sm25032335

[Ichipoo]

GA Mode sideswap combo

 

http://youtu.be/B0tET0t1juo?t=2m54s

 

And 6A being used in Normal Mode as combo filler.

 

http://youtu.be/B0tET0t1juo?t=8m29s

[crimsonstardust]

Seeing your matches kinda made me realize I may need to update my combo knowledge a bit on Izayoi, I had no idea should could score 5k without having to fatal counter off of counter hit GA 2C. Makes me wonder if I haven't been optimizing my damage, cause I still use a lot of 1.0 combos with 3C added certain places. I know 2.0 will come around at some point but doesn't change the fact I would like to know how to optimize her damage at the moment. 

 

 

http://www.twitch.tv...1659?t=1h47m05s

i also played him in winners semi's. timestamp thingy is broken i think, but its at 1hr 47m 5s. you can see me get nervous and sloppy in winners finals too, lol.

 

like if you actually thought the character you were playing was not viable or something i dont really know what to say about your analysis lmao

 

i didnt play as cleanly in gf, but theres probably a lot to gleam regardless. i can kind of explain my thought process in the match as it goes along if that helps anyone.

 

 

What I would like to know is how you're able to keep the pressure going on some of these players, a lot of the locals I play with have become accustomed to just reacting to me attempting an overhead when I hover dash at them even if I try to mask it with 2A pressure and stance cancels. That and it would help if you could explain and possibly how to practice the micro dash GA 5C after GA jC too, I know you mentioned during 1.1 debut patch how it works but I could never figure it out. 

[skd]

Seeing your matches kinda made me realize I may need to update my combo knowledge a bit on Izayoi, I had no idea should could score 5k without having to fatal counter off of counter hit GA 2C. Makes me wonder if I haven't been optimizing my damage, cause I still use a lot of 1.0 combos with 3C added certain places. I know 2.0 will come around at some point but doesn't change the fact I would like to know how to optimize her damage at the moment. 

 

 

 

What I would like to know is how you're able to keep the pressure going on some of these players, a lot of the locals I play with have become accustomed to just reacting to me attempting an overhead when I hover dash at them even if I try to mask it with 2A pressure and stance cancels. That and it would help if you could explain and possibly how to practice the micro dash GA 5C after GA jC too, I know you mentioned during 1.1 debut patch how it works but I could never figure it out. 

 

well, as far as comboparts, yeah. theres a bunch of stuff i never really got to post up :<

 

so talking about pressure, just think about how someone reacts. what are they reacting to? are they option selecting on their defense?

 

Its a bit deep, but ill try to keep it concise. Her overhead is...extremely hard to blatantly react to. There are about 14f of distinguishable animation of her leaving the ground for jump B, even less for jump A (which is super buffed in 2.0 btw!). Honestly, GOOD LUCK reacting to that. You want to consider what comes before it too. Theres jump startup, and the overall situation required to connect with the overhead. So what are they really reacting or responding to? Gaps, maybe. One way to make pressure way stronger is return to neutral state (2C, 5A/2A, post IAD jA are all best) and /delayed/ low. Stop them from jumping. You can airthrow, air trm (jA Throw) etc. Overall, what backs up how scary your pressure is is your damage. Stagger all your cancels, make them think they can get hit for jumping at ANY TIME. That fear is what should keep them afraid of pressing buttons and stuff. 2B low profiles most mashes, and after a low jump C, jump B is a sub 4f gap, which means it even beats jump startup. Its an extremely strong situation. If you showed me videos of your play i could probably more accurately critique, but learning to work with how people optimize their reactions (and punishing it!) is important. Izayoi has the tools to blow that stuff up. You have to earn the respect first, though.

 

My mixup also extended to beating fuzzy mash/fuzzyjump. The kind of idea behind "fuzzy" input is inputting something during another anticipated state. Commonly this is during blockstun, so something like fuzzy mash or fuzzy jump would be attempting to mask the input during blockstun or something. However, its still anticipatory. Theres a part against dora i do astraea RC 2C. Technically, there's no reason for me to do that on a very basic level. I have the blockstun. Wouldn't it be best for me to go for mixup to make the most of my frame adv? but he bit. If you fuzzy mashed after instant blocking astraea, it doesnt have enough blockstun to frame trap you for dash normals, so you can mash her out of something like dash jB. But if i RC'd and went low or something to try to keep pressure, he wouldn't have gotten the input due to being in blockstun (if i timed the low in accordance to the overhead, i would have gotten mashed out) so instead, i counted on him trying to disrespect. He could have also 6D'd or jumped, but it wouldn't really have amounted to much. If he mashes on the first frame, on trade, you have enough time to pick up with 2A or 5B (stand/crouch). Unfortunately he didnt even get the 5A on the first possible frame, and just ate the 2C CH raw and ow.

 

There was also another situation where he tried to fuzzy jump (inputting jump then immediately returning to downback during pressure in response to certain things) after 2C. I did 5A (which did not hit jump startup!). I figured he would have fuzzy jumped there, so i just let 5A recover and went for jB (lol) and that worked out too!

 

This is the reason why IAD normals (jA specifically) off 5C and stuff are a lot easier to react to, and are generally considered more "pressure" than mixup. The overhead is just too slow (unless you do it from a normal as a double jump). You can do some cute things with the situation as well. Overall, the pressure meta is very respect based for her, but you have to take care to make things ambiguous and actually compliment your pressure game with the proper alternatives (and identify those alternatives through your opponent's best options).

 

dash normals lol, it might be gone in the next game so you might not want to practice it, but pretty much they require the dash and input to come out on the same frame (0f discrepancy) so the only way to do it for moves that dont involve a 6 motion is buffering it through stuff. so during jC recovery you would buffer the dash, when you are first able to act buffer the 5C and viola. Its just timing, lol. You can 0f dash 236A, 236B, 236C, 623B, 623C, 6A, 6B, 6C from neutral. You can also put dash momentum into jumps and superjumps, lol. pretty tricky for left right with that.

 

and max damage combos hit super hard. 5b is like 4.7k in the corner at max range for only 2 stars. i never see anyone do the combos i do lol

 

so damage is DOWN on most 2 star combos, but up on one star combos. We can see huge damage drops (maybe? i feel like nobody truly optimized combos yet) hovering around 500 on better starters to 300 on worse starters for max damage. 6A usage can mitigate some of this, but i really havent seen anything good with 6A yet.

 

But, midscreen damage should be higher with the proper combos. Pressure is better (significantly better, wao), neutral is a bit easier, but its a bit harder to gain stocks on hits midscreen (unsure, i feel like char development is so bad lol). Also we have a DP.

Edited December 11, 2014 by not_lunaris

[crimsonstardust]

Been messing around with the zero frame dash or whatever it's called, man it's tough to do off of jC to 5C, I figured out the timing of 6 normals, a lot of these timings reminds me of the timing of doing just frame stuff in Tekken, oh man I'm gonna struggle figuring out the timing off of jC for awhile.

[Blueriku]

http://youtu.be/nX27vEOeLlk

 

i also played him in winners semi's. you can see me get nervous and sloppy in winners finals too, lol.

 

like if you actually thought the character you were playing was not viable or something i dont really know what to say about your analysis lmao

 

i didnt play as cleanly in gf, but theres probably a lot to gleam regardless. i can kind of explain my thought process in the match as it goes along if that helps anyone.

 

By any chance were you at evo 2014?