High/low same time Blocking question

[Beowulf]

Talking about unblockable, back in reload, Anji had also an unblockable with his 236+P Shitsu. I tried in training by putting the opponent in guard. And he actually took the hit anyway ! I guess that means you just don't have the time to get up/down to defend both in just 1 frame... Or can you do it by instant blocking/Slash Backing ? I should check out in AC's training mode I guess...

[4r5]

It was just a bug with the training dummy back then. In AC, the training dummy will properly block the "unblockable." Last I heard, anyways. I don't play chars with high+low unblockables, so it's all second hand to me.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Yeah the training dummy just won't block it, it's dumb. I think it doesn't even have to be on the same frame or anything.

[Xeno]

Eddie looks kind of.. lame.. in ^core

[4r5]

Not as lame as he was in #r.

[Superslash2]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but won't these 1-Frame Blocks involve Fuzzy Guards?

[Digital Watches]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but won't these 1-Frame Blocks involve Fuzzy Guards?

Well, yeah, technically, but it probably isn't that important in most cases.

[Oiboi]

I tested it in training mode the other day, and it's not actually that hard to do it because of hitstop (I tested against 22D forcebreak unblockable setup). If your in block stun and correctly change your block motion (i.e. from low to high, or high to low), Then you will automatically switch as that hit connects. In fact, if the blockstun is long enough that another attack connects with your guard, you don't even have to hold back and you will auto guard it if it's blockable in the same block status. In the case of the FB drill, it's 3 hits. The D little eddie hits (generally) between the second and third hit (this is dependant on placing and when the eddie releases D). But it's really easy to see coming, so if your on a stick, just slide your stick from 4 to 3 back and forth after you begin blocking the low and it'll automatically catch it, just remember to gaurd properly after the overhead. I tested on a pad which is might be a little easier since you simply have to move your thumb slightly. I'll have to test his other unblockable setups, but I'm assuming the same thing happens. It just requires some intuition to understand which one will connect first, then it's rather simple to block.

[Hellmonkey]

Eddie can release dust for the overhead projectile before doing 22d, causing the high and low hits to be simultaneous (1f between hits).

[Oiboi]

It's the same thing, if you just move between 3 and 4 repeatedly it'll block both. Just do it really fast.

[Xeno]

So.. the hitstop turns the 1f to more then 1f, allowing you to block easier? I would think rapidly switching between 3 and 4 would cause you to eat a hit if you were blocking the wrong way .. (well obviously, I mean it doesn't sound like rapid switching is a good idea!)

[Teyah]

It's the same thing, if you just move between 3 and 4 repeatedly it'll block both. Just do it really fast.

If your definition of 'really fast' = 60 times per second, then yes, you would be correct. However, humans generally max out around 10-15% of that level so that's not very realistic (and even then you'd have to block the right way on each frame).

So.. the hitstop turns the 1f to more then 1f, allowing you to block easier? I would think rapidly switching between 3 and 4 would cause you to eat a hit if you were blocking the wrong way .. (well obviously, I mean it doesn't sound like rapid switching is a good idea!)

The hitstop never turns the 1F to more than 1F, since projectiles keep moving / stay active during hitstop (in the event of an Eddie normal hitting before a projectile), and projectiles themselves never cause any hitstop (in the event of projectile hitting before an Eddie normal, or 2 projectiles hitting).

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

The hitstop never turns the 1F to more than 1F, since projectiles keep moving / stay active during hitstop (in the event of an Eddie normal hitting before a projectile), and projectiles themselves never cause any hitstop (in the event of projectile hitting before an Eddie normal, or 2 projectiles hitting).

Projectiles cause hitstop on the projectile and the person being hit by it, usually. Some I think don't have any hitstop though.

[Teyah]

Ah you're right, poor wording on my part - I was referring to hitstop on the main character and other projectiles (ie. things that could make an unblockable easier to block).

[Oiboi]

I get what your saying, but the fact is is that it reads the inputs regardless of what's happening, and if you can determine which hit you block first then you can block, then move to the other just as it connects and still catch the next hit. I'm not sure on all the technicalities of it but it's possible and once you keep in mind to do it when an unblockable is coming, it's not all that hard. While your right about moving at 60 frames per second is more or less impossible for a human, the game seems to have leeway to allow you to block things. Aside from which, pushback probably has something to do with all this as well, which will probably change the times when the projectile will hit anyways.

[Digital Watches]

Er... no offense, but that sounds like a lot of theory fighter, sir. I mean, yeah, you block "unblockables" by moving quickly from one block to the other... but I'd be more inclined to believe your assessment that it's "not all that hard" to do so if I were to see, I dunno, matches wherein it happened consistently (like, 9/10 times or something.) It's still blocking high one frame and low the next, regardless of how easy it sounds on paper.

[Oiboi]

Er... no offense, but that sounds like a lot of theory fighter, sir. I mean, yeah, you block "unblockables" by moving quickly from one block to the other... but I'd be more inclined to believe your assessment that it's "not all that hard" to do so if I were to see, I dunno, matches wherein it happened consistently (like, 9/10 times or something.) It's still blocking high one frame and low the next, regardless of how easy it sounds on paper.

It's not theory. I've tested it, in matches. If I had something to record with I'd prove it but for now I guess you can simply regard it as theory. As long as you anticipate the setup, you can prepare to defend against it. Still, I can understand your skepticism but like I said, I'll leave it up to you to believe or disbelieve.

[Hellmonkey]

99.9999999% of the times people block eddie's unblockables are when the eddie mistimes it so the high/low hits aren't actively hitting on the same frame.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

The timing for the block is exactly 1F if they do it properly, there's no buffer on it or anything. One thing hits you one frame, the other hits you the next (generally the physical attack always hits first). However keep in mind that the person doing the unblockable can simply alter his timing 1F and screw that up. Really there's no practical way to block an unblockable because it's basically a mixup where the difference is exactly 1F between high first or low first.

[Hellmonkey]

With the puddle unblockable at least, I believe it will always register the high hit first (that's what guarantees the puddle hitting). Not sure if all unblockables have the high hit first if they're active on the same frame or not, it could be that normals will hit first before projectiles (although that doesn't explain what happens with 22d unblockable). My TV is busted or I'd just test it out -_-

[Digital Watches]

99.9999999% of the times people block eddie's unblockables are when the eddie mistimes it so the high/low hits aren't actively hitting on the same frame.

That's kind of what it sounds like to me.

[Spirit Juice]

Hey, you guys are forgetting the power of BOBBLOCKABLES.

[Schank]

So what about the high hitting between the two low hits of the FB drill?

[Adelheid]

So what about the high hitting between the two low hits of the FB drill?

That's not actually a different situation. Switching between high and low block and vice versa with frame-perfect timing will allow you to block it without issue. You can block it, you merely won't.

[thegame4ever]

Does this explain why on training when you set a computer to guard they block your unblockables with eddie?