[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

[Kriegdrache]

Psssssssst ! In order to never fail Sturm, instead of doing 632146D, go for 632147896D as a gatling. In other words, pull a Tager and 360 your way through. Works with any 632146 motion in the game.

Wow I had no idea that was possible, I have to try that.

[Magaki]

Also sorry man, I owe you games.

Haha. Don't sweat it dude ! I'm quite busy today as well so I guess it will be another day.

You free tomorrow during the night ? Need to check if my "break" allowed me to reset my bad habits in defense.

[Kiba]

I will try make time but I can't guarantee it since I've been real bad at sticking to what I say.

On an unrelated note, I'd like some help guys. If I wanted to make a tutorial on wolf movement, what is some of the stuff you expect to see, and what would you include? Not sure how or where to start.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Kiba

[Magaki]

Here's a list of stuff I use. Just pick what you consider to be important to add in the video:

• w66D (I used and still use a lot w66D>air throw against jumpy opponents. Works wonders at mid range)
  
• crossup wj236A shenanigans
  
• 6D on the ground (I use it quite rarely in order to remind my opponent of how fast I can get in. I don't use it against Ragna, Litchi or any characters with good footsies though.)
  
• jump>4D/7D>jD>jB
  
• hj>jD>3D (Used a lot by Uma no Hone and got some pretty good results in neutral and defense.)
  
• crossup IAD in wolf mode (Used a lot by Shiro. Also used in safe jumps it seems. I need to use that more.)
  
• jD>6D>jDB
  

As for the tutorial itself, I think the best would be to add basic ways to get in (w66D for example) while explaining clearly that they should be used and not abused.

After that, I think some advices for specific matchups should be added. For example, you don't want to use 6D or w236A against Ragna because of his 5B. Or how useful w66D is against Relius or Lambda.

[KaiserCX]

Things I've had good success with, some of them Magaki has posted but figured I'd reinforce it as well.

• wj.665D for air grabs
  
• wj.665D5D7D5D > j.A/B/C for baiting AAs and cross-up if spaced correctly with j.B
  
• wj.236A > 3D/2D > j.B, just gotta be sure to space it correctly
  
• wj.236B > 2D/7D > 5D > j.A/B/C
  
• wIAD > j.A for mid-screen cross-up on opponent's neutral wake-up
  
• wIAD > 7D > j.B
  
• wj.3D > j.B
  
• wj.1/2D jump towards you opponent and bait AA land and 5C, I rarely use it but it works on occasion
  
• wj.6D > 5D > j.C
  
• wj.6D > 7D > j.B or 5D > j.A/B/C
  

I just put wolf in front of everything out of laziness. All of them can be started from human jump > 5D (outside of wIAD) as I'm sure most of us know, and some of them would be started from human in most cases. Figured I'd add this for people new to Valk though.

I also had good success with w7D(was 7C) > 5D > air dash > whatever in Extend but haven't messed with it much here due to how annoying 7D is to do on the ground in CP. I was just holding up back and just doing it during jump before, but it is noticeably slower so I've gotten to the point where I don't like using that anymore. It especially sucks when trying to use it to avoid projectiles.

Edited December 16, 2013 by KaiserCX

[Kiba]

Thanks guys for the very helpful responses. Will look into it.

[Dreize]

Thanks for all the insightful responses folks. Didn't expect to receive so many.

Two things to note:

1. This combo 5A/j.A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [2784/2711 DMG, 19 HG] is universal. The timing isn't though, you'll have to adjust accordingly. I'd only recommend this combo to Valks who are comfortable with most of his other combos and want to take things to the next level.

2. I'm sure that most people know this but corner combos that involve Aerial 2C > 236A are a bit odd on certain characters like Azrael, Izayoi, etc wherein the 236A will pop them out of the corner. I know that different people remedy this in different ways (delaying the 6B, delaying the 2C, etc) but I've found that the best/most consistent way to do it is just to slightly delay the 236A after the 2C. I guess I should add this to the combo thread F.A.Q.

[Kiba]

So while in training mode I luckily discovered an easier method to input 1DC wolf breaks for pressure. This may be especially useful to those who play pad.

Input a wolf normal say w5A, and at the same time hold 1. Then quickly input DCA and there you go. Since I've found this method I've been getting it down nearly 100% of the time. It's way easier than trying to input 1DCA altogether after an attack. Hope it helps guys, because once you get it down you won't be going back to 6D > 4C!

Simply put: w5A[Hold 1] > DCA

[RedTag14]

I thought the general idea was to hold 1 in the first place, but thanks for restating a VERY important clue for instant overhead dominance! It makes sense to hold 1 since he doesn't have any wolf normals using directional inputs. This is how you get four w[j.A]s after w[j.C] by holding 1 and "piano-ing" DCA as you're suspended in the air. Four times is not really practical, but definitely fun to do! Delaying the second w[j.A] has been a good mixup for me after w[j.C]. In other words, I can vouch for this technique 100%!

[Kriegdrache]

Wow, that might make things a hell of a lot easier, Kiba you da man.

[EXonestar]

This wolf breaking method is wicked lol I feel so powerful !!

The success rate is going up, hope I get solid with it.

Thanks Kiba

[Kriegdrache]

Im still having the troubles with it, buuuuut I'm getting there. I'm getting the spin animation, so I think my problem is that I'm not inputting DCA fast enough, as Im not getting the Wj.a animation. Just gotta keep at it though.

[EXonestar]

I have the same problem. Even found out that I can't do it on a brand new or slightly used pad. I need it to he wore or I'm screwed lol

Overall the rate is going up. Don't give up dude!!

[Dreize]

Wait, you guys haven't been holding 1 up until now?

Oh.

[EXonestar]

I have. I just don't press DCA fast enough most the time . Or occasional don't get the spin.

[Kiba]

Wait, you guys haven't been holding 1 up until now?

Oh.

My face right now, though I did honestly suspect that some people knew about it before I posted.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Kiba

[Kriegdrache]

Wait, you guys haven't been holding 1 up until now?

Oh.

I'm sorry I'm not very good with wolf sorcery yet

[Magaki]

While fooling around in training mode, I found the easiest safe jump ever. Works fine against Ragna's ID so I guess that you can use it against pretty much every reversals.

After a 6C>3C ender in the corner, jump right away and press jC when you land. (If you don't want to bother with timing just hold 9. It will allow you to jump as soon as possible.)

Told you it was the easiest safe jump ever !

Biggest weakness however is that you have to make sure your opponent is emergency teching after 3C. Delayed techs and rolls will bring back to neutral.

[Kiba]

I do this in the Tsubaki thread so I should probably list the updates I make in the strategy guide here too.

• Updated section on 'Getting in'.
  
• Updated section on 'Defense'.
  
• Updated wolf blockstrings. w[5A > 5B > 5C] is a tight blockstring. w5B > 1DCA wolf brake is extremely tight and mash safe (I highly recommend this blockstring too if you can do it. Too good)
  
• Slightly updated information on 'IOH j.A, wolf brake and rising wj.C'.
  

On a side note, I know the CP Valkenhayn wiki is lacking so I'll try work on that in the upcoming days.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Kiba

[Dreize]

Do we need an Amane section? Now that I think about it, we probably do.

[KaiserCX]

I was messing around in training has anyone tried this? (w5AxN >) w5B > IAD > 1DCB You get a quick dash into falling wj.B, depending on how long you waited and distance you'll either cross up or do it on the same side.

[Kriegdrache]

Yooo, just bought a stick so I might be able to actually play this character now.

Also, just watched the wolf movement vid, good stuff Kiba, really helpful.

[Magaki]

I was messing around in training has anyone tried this? (w5AxN >) w5B > IAD > 1DCB You get a quick dash into falling wj.B, depending on how long you waited and distance you'll either cross up or do it on the same side.

Yeah, I mentionned it in a few posts in the forum:

Cross-up blockstring: w5A>w5B>IAD>XD>wjA. 2D will cross-up, 1D will fake cross-up. You can also decide to land and press w5C for a low or w236C for the command grab.

However, I never used specifically brake or wjB. For the wjB, it's because whether I hit with the tippity tip of w5B or at close range, w5B>IAD>2D>wjA always works and I can gatling wjC for another overhead if the opponent reacts to the crossup.

As for the reason why I never used the brake is simply because I use 1D(fake cross-up),2D,3D(for spacing purpose and puts you at w5C range against DP) and 7D(for shenanigans). However, based on spacing, you can end up reversing your inputs and that's where you can screw yourself up with 1C becoming 3C.

I'm not saying that I consider 1DCB to be weaker, mind you. It seems to pretty much be the fastest crossup and the rewards are pretty cool so it's the best choice even if it's not as versatile as IAD>XD. It's mostly the risk of having a 3C and end up eating a 2A on reaction that annoys me.

Yooo, just bought a stick so I might be able to actually play this character now.

Haha, some of us plays him on pad though like Kiba and I. We don't really have that much troubles though.

It's more a question of what you consider to be the most comfortable: sliding your thumb on buttons or pressing each with different fingers.

If I remember right, Dreize and you are the only ones who switched to stick while learning Valk. Please tell us once you'll get used to him on stick if you consider that he's easier on pad or on stick.

[Kiba]

Also, just watched the wolf movement vid, good stuff Kiba, really helpful.

Thanks.

Also I need to add that w[5A > 5B > IAD > 1D/2D > j.A] to the strategy guide. I don't use it since I go straight to brjA, but that doesn't mean it's something to write off. Zekuso seems to like it, and nah I didn't know about the IAD 1DCB either. Nice.

[Falco252]

Hey, I noticed Ragna isn't in the list of DP-safe oki w5Cs in the Strategy Guide while it is in Magaki's post, considering Magaki's was edited after the strategy guid last edit on that post, I guess this is a little oversight, but figured I should still say I found it (unless it's not and then my bad).