[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

[Kiba]

Ha! Good shit guys!

Update:

Side Note For Kiba: The combos in the beginner combo section will not be added to thread's total combo count.

Also, not sure whether or not the combos in the beginner combo section are appropriate. Revisions may be made, after which I may need to ask a favor from you Kiba in order to make things easier for the beginners.

No probz!

[Kiba]

Yo, I went through the mash safe pressure strings, and it turns out it needs slight modification.

Wolf brake 'mash safe' blockstrings (IOH j.A)

• w[5B > Wolf brake > wj.A]
  
• w[5C > Wolf brake > wj.A]
  
• w[j.C > Wolf brake > j.B]
  
• 6B > Wolf brake > wj.A
  
• 3C > Wolf brake > wj.A
  

6B/3C > Wolf brake > j.A is too slow, and loses to mashing kinda easily. Sometimes w[5B > Wolf brake > wj.A] will lose.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Kiba

[KaiserCX]

Are you using 6D4CA or 1DCA? I ask because w5b > brJA is mash safe as long as you use 1DCA and you do it fast enough, the only thing that can beat it is IB reversals. w5B > brJA actually appears to have no gap in it as long as they don't IB and you do it fast enough, I just did some testing and I can't even mash 5A with Noel to get CH out of it.

Not really surprised that 6B > brJA isn't mash safe considering it wasn't in EX, but I had hoped it changed! It appears that only Noel's 5A will trade with it so you only have to worry about it if you're fighting a mashy Noel, someone that is good at IBing the 2nd hit of 6B, AAs that have head invincibility on the 5th frame (unlikely they'll do this though), and well of course reversals. I can't seem to get Haz/Rag 5A to even trade with it non-IB, I guess their hit-box isn't good enough (never thought I'd say that about Hazama and Ragna's 5A).

3C, 5C, 2C, 236A and 236B > brJA all get cleanly beat by 6f attacks.

236C and w5A > brJA trades with 6f attacks.

Edited November 22, 2013 by KaiserCX

[Magaki]

Now that's weird. I tested everything with 1DCA. I agree with removing 3C>brjA though because sometimes it seemed to win with Hazama's 5A and sometimes it traded so I thought that it had something like a 5 frame gap. However, I never got mashed out of 6B>brjA both in training and offline. I will test it myself once more later.

[KaiserCX]

Most likely because only Noel (that I know of), AAs with 5f head invincibility, IBing and of course reversals will beat it. It's honestly pretty good still, but I rarely use it because I'm afraid of getting DP'd. Almost every time I've tried using it I get DP'd out of it, and sadly most people I seem to play have a DP.

[Stellarcircle5]

Going to another FGC gathering tonight. I'll come back with enough info for a new matchup guide. It will be for either Hakumen, Kokonoe, or Ragna. I'm gunning for Koko since she is a hot topic right now.

Now for something actually on topic. I'm having trouble baiting DPs and whatnot. Maybe I'm not using proper movement, but the only real bait that seems to work for me is 7D/4D > 4C > 4D > punish. What are some good movement options that you dudes use to bait shit?

Edited November 22, 2013 by Stellarcircle5

[Magaki]

Yeah, that's why the fact that 6B>3C don't gatling anymore is quite annoying. It was useful because if the opponent was preparing a DP, you could hit them with 3C because they aren't blocking low anymore thanks to the 623 input. What I do however now is 6B>2A>2B. Same result with 6B>3C.

If you get hit before the 6B, did you try some blockstrings like 2B>3C or 2C>3C ? 3C is quite useful now with the wolf cancel and if the opponent is far/using barrier block, you can do 3C>1D>w5C and be in the perfect range for w5C in order to avoid most DPs.

Edit: Good luck Stellar ! I found some nice things against Kokonoe but not enough to make a proper matchup guide. If you intend to write one, I'll just fill it with what I already know.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Magaki

[Dreize]

I'm not the greatest at baiting DP's, but I mainly use w[4D]. On certain characters such as Litchi I'll just block it so I get a good human CH starter. We also have the Joker ender/safe-jump set-up.

Try to get some games in with Kokonoe if you can, I'm a bit curious about that match-up. Haven't really played it much.

3C is quite useful now with the wolf cancel and if the opponent is far/using barrier block, you can do 3C>1D>w5C and be in the perfect range for w5C in order to avoid most DPs.

Yeah, I do this too.

[Dreize]

Combo thread updated.

Everyone cool with the way overdrive is being notated?

Also, tested out two of our combos that have OD in them for damage/heat/OD level (had a bit of trouble with pinpointing the required OD level):

-6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > j.D > w[j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 6D] > j.D > j.C > OD(3-4) > j.B > j.214B > 8D > w[j.B > j.214A] > 5D > 2C > 632146D [5386 DMG, 27 HG]

-5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 6D > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > OD(7-8) > 2C] > j.D > j.B > j.214B > 5C > 236B > j.236B > 6D > j.214A > 5D > h[2C > 632146D] [5345 DMG, 34 HG]

Which left me a bit perplexed. OD with 30% health left feels a lot different from OD with 39% health left even though they are technically the same level (level 7, 420 frames).

Did multiple tests in order to see if it was just a speed issue but the results haven't changed. Eh.

[Kiba]

Combo thread updated.

Everyone cool with the way overdrive is being notated?

Edit: Actually maybe it'll be better to put 'Lv' in front of the number just to be clear. Thanks for the time and effort.

[Dreize]

Done. Went with "LvL".

[Hugotakon]

I´ve been playing BB since CT but I´ve started playing valk at the Extend version of the game, my main char was arakune and sub bang on those days but now I find valk very fun and chalenging to use.

I´ve been practicing a lot the wolf loop but I´m still missing some combos, I found easier to use te 1DCA when I´m on the right side of the screen and 6D-4C on the left, maybe theres something wrong with my hand, lot of more training time I need.

Anyway I just want to thanks Kiba for the tutorial video, the tips and the fast response of the questions in the thead.

Keep on that way, Thanks again!

[Kiba]

Honestly I need to get used to 1DC it's much better.

Also, thanks man and NP! Good luck with your training.

[KaiserCX]

Honestly it's pretty normal for you to find certain movements on one side easier than others, personally I still kind of hate something as simple as 236236 while I'm on the left wide more than when I'm on the right side and I really hate 632146 while I'm on the right side.

I've actually been using 3D7C for wolf loop, I find it easier to do that on stick than 3D4C it's easier for me to get back to 3D for some reason.

[JokerAceX]

I'm just trying to find out if it's just me or not, I have to admit my execution isn't the greatest but is anyone else having a hard time getting down combo's with Valk that start with him in wolf form, and half way through the combo change back to human to complete the second half of the combo? for example I'm trying to get down w[j.C > 5B > 5C > 6D > J.A > 5D] > h[ 5B > 5C > JC > J.B > JC > J.B > J.C], I always seem to drop the combo at the point where he turns back to human mode for standing B...

[Kriegdrache]

I think you just have to input the 5D > h5B REALLY fast. I'm not a valk main by any means, so please don't quote me on this but I think I read something like that a while back.

[Dreize]

Yes, Krieg is correct. It's most likely a speed issue on your end. This same question gets asked every few days, hah.

[Kriegdrache]

I literally just spent the last hour and a half practicing the trial that uses it and I can confirm that it is indeed a speed issue. I was just sliding the top of my thumb from the x to the triangle, as I'm a pad player.

Getting it down has re-ignited my passion for learning this character too. You're next wolf brake!

[50-50罠]

I'm just trying to find out if it's just me or not, I have to admit my execution isn't the greatest but is anyone else having a hard time getting down combo's with Valk that start with him in wolf form, and half way through the combo change back to human to complete the second half of the combo? for example I'm trying to get down w[j.C > 5B > 5C > 6D > J.A > 5D] > h[ 5B > 5C > JC > J.B > JC > J.B > J.C], I always seem to drop the combo at the point where he turns back to human mode for standing B...

Wait am I reading the inputs correctly?? H5b> 5c> jc> jb> jc> jb> jc¿¿¿¿ I don't think that's possible.

I do 5d> 5b with plink timing basically. This helps my consistency a lot.

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Edited December 3, 2013 by 50-50罠

[Kriegdrache]

He probably meant [h]5b > 5C > JA > JB > JB > JC

[Magaki]

h[5B > 5C > JC > J.B > JC > J.B > J.C]

By JC, he meant jc for jump cancel. J.C means jC. In other words, he wanted to say 5B>5C>jB>djB>djC.

[50-50罠]

Ok thanx for clearing it up

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[Kriegdrache]

So, I was practicing w[5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 5C > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C and for some reason I can't get 6D > JA to connect on a consistent basis. It's ironic, as when I can do it, I can get 5D > 5B p.much 95% of the time, and I'm getting a little tired of it.

Any advice? I think I'm just inputting the J.A too slow but even when I input it when he's doing his little flip thing at the start of 6D it still doesn't come out errytime. It's weird.

Thanks in advance.

[50-50罠]

Sounds like you're inputting [w]ja in to early. I believe you have to wait 15f before Valk can do anything.

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[Dreize]

^Yeah, this is correct. Off of 6D it's 15 frames until you can do it.

If the w[j.A] is not coming out at all you're most likely inputting it too early, whereas if it's coming out and not connecting properly you're most likely inputting it too late.