[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

[Shyn]

Oh! You said 6C. haha... I don't remember how much I was doing off that, then. Probably somewhere around 4k max.

[Kiba]

No probs Shyn.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention this. Wolf form seems to provide you with 3 different backdashes now! You have his standard backdash which is performed by inputting 44, you have 4D, and now you also seem to have another where he backs up a little further than 4D.

I'm not completely sure how this is done, but while doing the standard corner combo ending with 3C, I pressed 5D (delayed) and held back. It's basically his standard backdash but he backs up a little further. This seems useful in saving wolf meter, but sometimes it seems to come out when I don't mean for it to happen and I lose my advantage.

[Shyn]

Are you maybe talking about the new transform? If you just do a normal transform with 4D, he will immediately backdash as he transforms. It's not invulnurable, though. (and in CH state)

[Kiba]

Yeah I think that's the one. I have been able to do it while in wolf form too, but by accident.

[KaiserCX]

Do you mean D4>4C cancel while in wolf form? I'm still not used to the human to 4D, so used to holding back and going into wolf form to make an air attack wiff and counter, the 4D is messing me up.

[Magaki]

For some reason, I also have troubles doing 7D while the wolf is on the ground. 60% of the time, the game makes 7 comes out first. Same problem with 2C and 5C(on hit). Seems the game give priority to the jump cancel instead of 7D. It's possible to make them come out but you need to be extremely accurate.

6B,3C and 6C obviously works wonder because they aren't jump cancelable. I strongly suggest to use those 3 normals or specials if you plan to do 7D in order to catch mashers or avoid certain DP in a blockstring.

[Kakimori]

My God, this D change is going to take so much time to get used to. You have to be precise as shit on your wolf transformations 100% of the time or you're going to flat out lose. Ugh.

[Dreize]

Eh, we're all in the same boat. Give it time.

[Kiba]

Do you mean D4>4C cancel while in wolf form? I'm still not used to the human to 4D, so used to holding back and going into wolf form to make an air attack wiff and counter, the 4D is messing me up.

Yeah that's what I mean. It's the same case with me it comes out unintentionally lol.

[Skye]

Who has gotten the hang of BBCP Valk yet? I'd like to FT one of (the better of) you Saturday evening. Be merciless.

[femoral]

hey guys, I was a valk played when he came out but have not played the game since CS. I am getting the hang of some of the new wolf stuff but I had a couple questions i was hoping a couple of the more experienced valk players could help with.

1) no matter how hard I try I cannot see to get the w[5C 6D j.A] 5D 5B to connect, is there a trick? seems like i hit the ground, transform, and then can already tech.

2) Wolf brake: i keep reading about it and its crazy notions but i cannot find an explanation of it.

if someone could please point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Magaki]

1) no matter how hard I try I cannot see to get the w[5C 6D j.A] 5D 5B to connect, is there a trick? seems like i hit the ground, transform, and then can already tech.

Sadly, there is no secret really. Just try to press faster. Press 5D>5B like if it was a double tap.

2) Wolf brake: i keep reading about it and its crazy notions but i cannot find an explanation of it.

In CP, if you want to wolf brake, you have to press either 1C,4C or 7C.

[Dreize]

Was doing a bit of testing and apparently this silly stuff with Forward Throw > 236A still works on Arakune, even in CP. Hah.

Midscreen:

(CS: Arakune) Forward Throw > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > j.D > w[j.A > j.C > j.236B > j.214A].

2863 dmg 20 hg.

2863 dmg for almost no wolf gauge usage isn't too bad. The combo itself is more of a joke than anything else though.

[Shyn]

Who has gotten the hang of BBCP Valk yet? I'd like to FT one of (the better of) you Saturday evening. Be merciless.

I hate netplay, but it says you're from Michigan? Gonna be at Youmacon?

[Skye]

I hate netplay, but it says you're from Michigan? Gonna be at Youmacon?

lol nooooooooooooo, it's complicated.

[Negarema]

Hi! I'm new at the forum.

I'll be here a lot since Valkenhayn is my main, but I'm having a lot of trouble with his CP incarnation.

As Magaki stated, w.7D is extremely hard to do, but not only that, w.8D and w.9D too; I even thought they were removed in ground as a nerf, but I manage to do it a couple of times. This is bad, because those dashes are powerful tools for attack, and evasion. This version of Valkenhayn have truly tighter execution than his previous incarnations, I can't control him well.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Negarema

[KaiserCX]

Getting it to come out really is annoying, but you can just hold 7 and then press D. It is slightly slower but still decent for movement options, you're still able to do 5D > air-dash and such.

[Magaki]

I did some testing with brJA today. To be more accurate, with every move that you can follow with a brJA right after.

Mash safe

w5B>brJA

w5C>brJA

6B>brJA

3C>brJA

Isn't mash safe

w5A>brJA

5C>brJA

2C>brJA (trades at best against a 5A with 5 frames startup)

Any special>brJA

Other random stuff:

_________________________________________

w5A>jc>wj5C and w5B>jc>wj5C blockstrings doesn't work at point blank range on: Hazama, Mu, Relius, Bullet, Platinum, Azrael, Nu, Noel, Valkenhayn.

w5A only works on: Terumi, Amane, Tsubaki, Makoto, Hakumen, Ragna, Jin, Rachel, Taokaka, Litchi, Arakune, Bang, Tager, Izayoi, Carl.

w5A and w5B works on: Hakumen, Bang, Tager.

If you keep dashing forward for a bit then do it, it will work on everyone thanks to the momentum except: Noel, Nu.

Obviously, forget about it if the opponent barrier blocks.

____________________________________________________

I tested all the okizeme options for CSE listed here. They all seems to work with some slight variations. I will edit the second post later with new variations for CP and new wolf meatys.

[Kiba]

Nice stuff. Will get this into the strategy guide.

Also on a side note, callmechalk I moved your post to the Q & A thread as the thread was unnecessary.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Kiba

[Dreize]

Did some quick testing for the 5C > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > 236C] combo route.

Works On: Tager, Hazama, Hakumen, Taokaka, Mu, Litchi, Bullet, Noel, Rachel, Amane, Jin, Arakune, Terumi, Azrael, Ragna, Platinum, Bang, Valkenhayn, Kagura.

Doesn't Work On: Nu (236C whiffs), Tsubaki (236C whiffs), Carl (2C whiffs), Izayoi (236C whiffs), Relius (236C whiffs), Makoto (2C whiffs).

Didn't Test It On Yet: Kokonoe.

Kiba, you may or may not want to make a note of this in the guide, but since some of our wolf corner combos that involve the 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > [5B > 2C > 6C], etc route also work slightly outside of the corner due to 6C's wallbounce they don't work on Carl or Makoto since the 2C will whiff. Meaning that, when doing a combo on either of those two when close to the corner you should use the 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > [5B > 236A], etc route instead.

A few other things:

-I attempted the Sturm Wolf > tk.Konig Flug tech in the corner today against Hakumen and Ragna. After about 30 minutes of attempted tries I couldn't even land it once (which is extremely unusual). Either the tk.Konig Flug would fall short and whiff, or it would hit and blue beat. I'll do some more testing later in the week against other characters. Hopefully this still works in CP.

-As promised, I updated the combo thread with a few of the combos posted by Kaiser, Shyn, and I (more specifically speaking, the ones that I thought were good). At any rate, we went from 84 combos to 94.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dreize

[KaiserCX]

Nice work Magaki and Dreize, I just tested 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > 236C] and it works on Kagura as well. Also kind of surprising that 3C > brJA beats out mashing, that's really nice to know.

[Magaki]

-I attempted the Sturm Wolf > tk.Konig Flug tech in the corner today against Hakumen and Ragna. After about 30 minutes of attempted tries I couldn't even land it once (which is extremely unusual). Either the tk.Konig Flug would fall short and whiff, or it would hit and blue beat. I'll do some more testing later in the week against other characters. Hopefully this still works in CP.

That's also something that I tried but if you check carefully, you will notice that the opponent tech faster in CP than in Extend. Sturm Wolf>3C is impossible to do now because of that. I concluded then that any followup after Sturm wolf is impossible to do considering that you barely have enough time to even get a proper oki after Sturm wolf in the corner.

Also kind of surprising that 3C > brJA beats out mashing, that's really nice to know.

To be honest, I was quite surprised too but it allowed me to validate my theory which is that Valkenhayn doesn't cancel into wolf like if it was a normal gatling. Otherwise, if 3C>brJA works, 5C and 2C should work too because they are all level 4. The same could be said for 6B.

3C and 2C also got the same amount of active frames (3) so even if the wolf cancel is only supposed to happen during the first frame of the real recovery, they should both bring the same result but it's not the case.

My guess would be that, for each wolf cancelable normal, you will only transform into wolf in a very specific frame during the recovery. This is extremely obvious for 5C who is, by far, the longest to go to wolf mode. Heck, in my test, Hazama had enough time to block the 5C, recovers from the blockstun and hits me with a 5A while I didn't even get to the part where I'm supposed to brake then jA. This is pretty much why 5C wolf cancel should be considered to be the last thing you want to use in pressure because of how slow it is.

The best way to notice that however is by trying all the brJA with every normals that I listed. You will notice that the timing is completely different for every human normals. I, however, consider that this is something you properly need to master if you want to really be competitive with Valkenhayn. Even 5C>brJA yeah because it makes you realize how big is wjA's range and make the opponent guess whether you're doing a 7D/4D or brJA.

[RedTag14]

Hello! New to the forums but have been playing Valk since his debut. In regards to Magaki's last post. What does "brJA" mean? Thanks in advance and hope I can somehow contribute here shortly (working on challenge #30 >.<')!

[KaiserCX]

3C knocks back a lot sadly, seems like the only thing you can do is 2A > 3C > brJA and you have to be right on top of them for that to work. Regardless still seems like a very good way to get into wolf mode considering 6B is almost seems like a 50% chance someone will try to DP you. I doubt that will happen for 3C, at least the first attempt.

w5A/5B > jc > j.C also doesn't seem to work on Kagura.

Hello! New to the forums but have been playing Valk since his debut. In regards to Magaki's last post. What does "brJA" mean? Thanks in advance and hope I can somehow contribute here shortly (working on challenge #30 >.<')!

brJA refers to wolf instant overhead. It is input by doing 1DCA in wolf form, if you're on an arcade stick you pretty much piano those buttons quickly (although the timing kind of varies for each special cancel-able move). To go into more detail, you're cancelling out your downward dash with the wolf break (1/4/7C) and making the wolf j.a come out. So you can esentially use any downward dash (1/2/3D) then cancel with any backwards C, the simplest is of course 1.

EDIT: Oh yeah brJA works with 6D > 1/4/7CA, but it's 2 frames (if I remember correctly) slower than using the downward dash variant.

Edited November 4, 2013 by KaiserCX

[Kiba]

Got it in the strategy guide Dreize. Thanks!

Other stuff I've done:

-edited the information on using 4 cannons. It's uncommon in CP but the option is still there.

-Edited the blockstrings section.

I'll admit I've been less focused around here because I've been bangin' out CP, but I intend to make it up.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Kiba