Chrono Phantasma Speculations/Theories [rules updated 10/14]

[Toxin45]

Yeah I agree that soichiro being terumi and the priestess being izanami

But I still think Ragna,Jin,and Saya being created from sechs and achit's DNA with ragna's soul being Toya's,jin's being akira,and Saya was maid to be a vessel for izanami. But Saya was mind rape by Terumi and saya's devotion to ragna caused some problems for the goddess so she decides to use that devotion to her advantage.Also it is hinted that murakumos 11-13 each carry a piece of saya's soul.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Toxin45

[Keaton]

Does anyone know when Terumi was in the Susano'o unit/exactly what his relation was to it? Was it before he started conducting experiments on the boundary with Relius or do we have any earlier mentions of his actions?

[Zedar90]

Does anyone know when Terumi was in the Susano'o unit/exactly what his relation was to it? Was it before he started conducting experiments on the boundary with Relius or do we have any earlier mentions of his actions?

I would guess he was inside of it before he "hired" Relius to make Kusanagi. He was going to give one of the original Units (sankishin) which would likely be the Susanoo Unit to Relius and Ayatsuki but it got picked up by Alucard.

And from what he said in CS the reason he got out of it looks to be that he couldn't kill Amaterasu in it since it was bound to Amaterasu.

[Keaton]

I would guess he was inside of it before he "hired" Relius to make Kusanagi. He was going to give one of the original Units (sankishin) which would likely be the Susanoo Unit to Relius and Ayatsuki but it got picked up by Alucard.

And from what he said in CS the reason he got out of it looks to be that he couldn't kill Amaterasu in it since it was bound to Amaterasu.

Ah I see...is that the earliest mention we have of him or do we know of anything else he might of done before enlisting Relius' help? Would it be feasible for him to have been created within/alongside the Susano'o unit, and as such have had no body prior to having one made for him, or has it been explicitly mentioned that he took and wore the armour? The fact that he says "I am the one true Susano'o" during his astral kinda supports that idea, but I could be wrong.

[Zedar90]

Ah I see...is that the earliest mention we have of him or do we know of anything else he might of done before enlisting Relius' help? Would it be feasible for him to have been created within/alongside the Susano'o unit, and as such have had no body prior to having one made for him, or has it been explicitly mentioned that he took and wore the armour? The fact that he says "I am the one true Susano'o" during his astral kinda supports that idea, but I could be wrong.

It's not known anything earlier about Terumi other than that he looked like Hazama (Green hair, looked like a snake) when he "hired" Relius. His real name isn't even known, but I would believe he at least was once alive since he uses Yuuki (ghost) in his name. It could also be possible that Kazuma was his fourth body (kvar=4).

And about using the Susanoo, all he said was that there shouldn't be any memories left of him that Hakumen feels, but since it was previously his body maybe there was some.

In the japanese version he doesn't say that he is the true Susanoo, he says he has become Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto.

[Toxin45]

It's not known anything earlier about Terumi other than that he looked like Hazama (Green hair, looked like a snake) when he "hired" Relius. His real name isn't even known, but I would believe he at least was once alive since he uses Yuuki (ghost) in his name. It could also be possible that Kazuma was his fourth body (kvar=4).

And about using the Susanoo, all he said was that there shouldn't be any memories left of him that Hakumen feels, but since it was previously his body maybe there was some.

In the japanese version he doesn't say that he is the true Susanoo, he says he has become Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto.

As said before, he could be Soichiro and all the other stuff people said before.

[Keaton]

It's not known anything earlier about Terumi other than that he looked like Hazama (Green hair, looked like a snake) when he "hired" Relius. His real name isn't even known, but I would believe he at least was once alive since he uses Yuuki (ghost) in his name. It could also be possible that Kazuma was his fourth body (kvar=4).

And about using the Susanoo, all he said was that there shouldn't be any memories left of him that Hakumen feels, but since it was previously his body maybe there was some.

In the japanese version he doesn't say that he is the true Susanoo, he says he has become Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto.

Ahh okay, thanks for clarifying all that! That's pretty interesting, especially that Kazuma could be his fourth body. What is Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto? o:

[Zedar90]

Ahh okay, thanks for clarifying all that! That's pretty interesting, especially that Kazuma could be his fourth body. What is Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto? o:

I'm not that knowledge about shinto myth, but it's a longer name for Susanoo

[Keaton]

I'm not that knowledge about shinto myth, but it's a longer name for Susanoo

Okie dokie, thanks!

[Shinhwa]

Here are the stuff I have been wondering about for a couple of days while I was rewatching the Story Modes of Chronophantasma, and looking through Continuum Shift stuff too again:

1. How and why was Terumi the original user of the Susano'o Unit?

2. If Terumi isn't his real name, does that mean he really was Soichiro in his previous incarnation or something?

3. Why is it that Ragna's Blood-Scythe look like Sech's Kusanagi blades? Coincidence or Do they seriously have some sort of connection?

4. How did Ragna (the very first one before time loop) even obtain Blood-Scythe in the first place? (As in how did the very first Ragna before the very first time loop happened obtain it?) I know it is considered a paradox, but there has to be an origin where it comes from :I

5. Just what happened between 2050 (XBLAZE year) and 2100 (Phase Shift year)? (Characters from XBLAZE would be in their 60s and 70s during Phase Shift)

6. What happened to the Legacy Weapons after the events in XBLAZE?

7. It was mentioned that the Embryo was lost. Is this because Es had inherited it from Hinata then sealed herself within the Boundary or is there another meaning to this?

8. Just what is the extent the protection that Life Link can give to the users? (Especially in Ragna's case whose life span is near its end)

9. Just when and how did Ragna and Nu get a Life Link connection in the first place?

10. Why does Kagura know the secrets behind Ragna, Jin and Noel? (Amanohokosaka maybe?)

11. Why is Ragna called the origin? Why is the Susano'o Unit even mentioned when concerning him?

12. Why was it that saving Jin who was sent back to the past and putting him into the Susano'o Unit lead to having Ragna being born in the future?

13. Ragna is called the current world's evil. But is there another meaning to this? For example, it is known that the current world's system is distorted and is abnormal, and if Ragna is the destroyer of the current world's system which would lead to the development of a new system (Maybe a world like Kagura had described in Episode 14). But because the world does not want to let go of the current system, it created the Power of the Order to keep its current system alive.

14. Does Ragna still have the qualification to become the "Guardian of the Azure"? But just what is the Guardian of the Azure and what role does it exactly have?

15. Does the Successor of the Azure have other roles that are not known?

16. Noel did not exist in previous timelines (Hakumen's), but she survived the Take-Mikazuchi's blast in the current one (Or did she survive in other timelines too? - CT shows various timelines where she survives but goes through various ends (like getting killed by Jin), so can't say this is the only one where she survived). Did some sort of power or other influence saved her for a purpose?

17. What kind of future would the world have right now if Ragna took the path of a Brave Warrior (Yuusha) instead of a Destroyer since the beginning? (Ex. Saving the Prime Fields out of their misery by freeing them instead of killing them) Would this be the kind of route that the Master Unit Amaterasu had wanted for a long time?

18. Just what purpose did the Sector Seven route and Six Heroes serve...? (Other than Terumi being separated from Hazama)

Edited December 30, 2013 by Shinhwa

[Master Of Chaos]

I can say right now that anything you ask about the first time loop most likely does not, or will not, have a definitive answer. Nothing about that has ever been disclosed. Most of the questions you ask also don't really have definitive answers yet ether (Though I guess that's why you posted them here). Here's what I can respond to:

8: Life Links keep both parties alive as long as one of them is still active. Even if one of then is killed, they will be brought back to life as long as the other party is still living. Essentially, the people in question are immortal unless both of them are killed within a certain amount of time from each other.

12: What are you talking about here? How did Jin's being sent back in time affect Ragna's birth?

16: IIRC, It's up to chance weather or not Noel survives the Take-Mikazuchi blast...I think it was stated somewhere that the amount of timelines where Noel survived were lower than the amount of timelines where she didn't.

18: They set a few things up for the main story, such as Celcia's being brought to the present and adjusting to the new present, Bullet's grudge against Sector Seven and Azrael being released...Things like that.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Master Of Chaos

[Shinhwa]

I can say right now that anything you ask about the first time loop most likely does not, or will not, have a definitive answer. Nothing about that has ever been disclosed. Here's what I can respond to:

8: Life Links keep both parties alive as long as one of them is still active. Even if one of then is killed, they will be brought back to life as long as the other party is still living. Essentially, the people in question are immortal unless both of them are killed within a certain amount of time from each other.

12: What are you talking about here? How did Jin's being sent back in time affect Ragna's birth?

16: IIRC, It's up to chance weather or not Noel survives the Take-Mikazuchi blast...I think it was stated somewhere that the amount of timelines where Noel survived were lower than the amount of timelines where she didn't.

18: They set a few things up for the main story, such as Celcia's being brought to the present and adjusting to the new present, Bullet's grudge against Sector Seven and Azrael being released...Things like that.

Well I mean for Life Link, would one's Life span be restored to a certain amount?

Also, read somewhere that Rachel had saved Jin who was sent to the past from dying and put him in Susano'o Unit as it would lead to Ragna.

Guess Noel survived a few times then.

The thing is how if you look at the other routes, Bullet doesn't recognize Azrael in either routes until she meets him and they happen in different locations (Dimensional Interferences and Influences to blame). Hakumen didn't really know what happened with Terumi in Episode 18 despite he had helped to defeat Terumi in the Six Heroes route. Jubei didn't recognize Phantom as Nine in Episode 17 either despite Celica having told him that Nine = Phantom. So if the Dimensional Interferences were to have characters rewind back in time in the end, just what was the main purpose of those other two routes...?

[Master Of Chaos]

Hazama got his ass kicked and his throat ripped out by Relius in the latter's Extend arcade ending so that Terumi could go off and fuck with Takamagahara. We seem him later in the True End and he looks pretty K. I'd say it doesn't really affect someone's life span other than the obvious, but seeing as revival isn't a real life phenomenon and therefore has no basic rules to go off of, that kind of question can't really be answered.

[Shinhwa]

Hazama got his ass kicked and his throat ripped out by Relius in the latter's Extend arcade ending so that Terumi could go off and fuck with Takamagahara. We seem him later in the True End and he looks pretty K. I'd say it doesn't really affect someone's life span other than the obvious, but seeing as revival isn't a real life phenomenon and therefore has no basic rules to go off of, that kind of question can't really be answered.

Which is why I am worried about Ragna D:

[kylehyde]

I thought the point of Jin being given the Susano O unit was to kill the Black Beast. Where did you read that it was to make sure Ragna was born?

[Toxin45]

Here are the stuff I have been wondering about for a couple of days while I was rewatching the Story Modes of Chronophantasma, and looking through Continuum Shift stuff too again:

1. How and why was Terumi the original user of the Susano'o Unit?

2. If Terumi isn't his real name, does that mean he really was Soichiro in his previous incarnation or something?

3. Why is it that Ragna's Blood-Scythe look like Sech's Kusanagi blades? Coincidence or Do they seriously have some sort of connection?

4. How did Ragna (the very first one before time loop) even obtain Blood-Scythe in the first place? (As in how did the very first Ragna before the very first time loop happened obtain it?) I know it is considered a paradox, but there has to be an origin where it comes from :I

5. Just what happened between 2050 (XBLAZE year) and 2100 (Phase Shift year)? (Characters from XBLAZE would be in their 60s and 70s during Phase Shift)

6. What happened to the Legacy Weapons after the events in XBLAZE?

7. It was mentioned that the Embryo was lost. Is this because Es had inherited it from Hinata then sealed herself within the Boundary or is there another meaning to this?

8. Just what is the extent the protection that Life Link can give to the users? (Especially in Ragna's case whose life span is near its end)

9. Just when and how did Ragna and Nu get a Life Link connection in the first place?

10. Why does Kagura know the secrets behind Ragna, Jin and Noel? (Amanohokosaka maybe?)

11. Why is Ragna called the origin? Why is the Susano'o Unit even mentioned when concerning him?

12. Why was it that saving Jin who was sent back to the past and putting him into the Susano'o Unit lead to having Ragna being born in the future?

13. Ragna is called the current world's evil. But is there another meaning to this? For example, it is known that the current world's system is distorted and is abnormal, and if Ragna is the destroyer of the current world's system which would lead to the development of a new system (Maybe a world like Kagura had described in Episode 14). But because the world does not want to let go of the current system, it created the Power of the Order to keep its current system alive.

14. Does Ragna still have the qualification to become the "Guardian of the Azure"? But just what is the Guardian of the Azure and what role does it exactly have?

15. Does the Successor of the Azure have other roles that are not known?

16. Noel did not exist in previous timelines (Hakumen's), but she survived the Take-Mikazuchi's blast in the current one (Or did she survive in other timelines too? - CT shows various timelines where she survives but goes through various ends (like getting killed by Jin), so can't say this is the only one where she survived). Did some sort of power or other influence saved her for a purpose?

17. What kind of future would the world have right now if Ragna took the path of a Brave Warrior (Yuusha) instead of a Destroyer since the beginning? (Ex. Saving the Prime Fields out of their misery by freeing them instead of killing them) Would this be the kind of route that the Master Unit Amaterasu had wanted for a long time?

18. Just what purpose did the Sector Seven route and Six Heroes serve...? (Other than Terumi being separated from Hazama)

As I stated Ragna could be made from sechs and achit's cells with his soul being Toya's who also got a similar fighting style and Jin and Saya as well due to the former having Akira's soul who also carry's the power of order and Saya who was obvisoly ment to be a vessel for izanami the priesstess of the azure and the goddess of death.

I am pretty sure that soichiro is terumi because Izanami and Terumi know each other.Es and Rachel could be the same person due to their similiar appearance and personality.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Toxin45

[Shinhwa]

As I stated Ragna could be maid from sechs and achit's cells with his soul being Toya's who also got a similar fighting style and Jin and Saya as well due to the former having Akira's soul who also carry's the power of order and Saya who was obvisoly ment to be a vessel for izanami the priesstess of the azure and the goddess of death.

I am pretty sure that soichiro is terumi because Izanami and Terumi know each other.Es and Rachel could be the same person due to their similiar appearance and personality.

Ragna is a MAID? Wut?

Es and Rachel doesn't have similar personality nor appearance...

[kylehyde]

Rachel has her own origin, how could she and Es be the same person?

[Toxin45]

Ragna is a MAID? Wut?

Es and Rachel doesn't have similar personality nor appearance...

well i ment made and es does share the same birth month, has a cat that look nago,also wears high boots and plus their dresses are I. Also Rachel and Es personalities is that they are nearly emotionless and calm.

[Toxin45]

Rachel has her own origin, how could she and Es be the same person?

yeah but it's implied to be artificial and look at the reply I said above.

[Shinhwa]

More like in terms of timeline, Es is speculated to be Master Unit Amaterasu due to coming in contact with the Master Unit (which wasn't called Amaterasu before) and then sealing herself in the Boundary and it would mean Rachel would be created only after within the 50 years period of time after the events of XBLAZE, that it seems way too short and Rachel designates Amaterasu as another person. Rachel also questioned why she was even created by Clavis Alucard. Also if you consider the fact the vampires age freaking slowly (Rachel was way younger in Phase Shift time period) and that she barely aged despite living for a long period of time, it would normally mean that she may have actually existed during the events of XBLAZE.

Es is more similar to Lambda if you consider personality and Rachel is a flat chest and a loli while Es herself has huge breasts. Also the fact Rachel isn't emotionless as she can get more emotional in several occurrences (Ex. How she becomes pissed after being called Loli Granny)

Also you are reading too much into that cat doll that looked like Nago when swimsuit Es was sitting on it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Shinhwa

[Toxin45]

More like in terms of timeline, Es is speculated to be Master Unit Amaterasu due to coming in contact with the Master Unit (which wasn't called Amaterasu before) and then sealing herself in the Boundary and it would mean Rachel would be created only after within the 50 years period of time after the events of XBLAZE, that it seems way too short and Rachel designates Amaterasu as another person. Rachel also questioned why she was even created by Clavis Alucard. Also if you consider the fact the vampires age freaking slowly (Rachel was way younger in Phase Shift time period) and that she barely aged despite living for a long period of time, it would normally mean that she may have actually existed during the events of XBLAZE.

Es is more similar to Lambda if you consider personality and Rachel is a flat chest and a loli while Es herself has huge breasts. Also the fact Rachel isn't emotionless as she can get more emotional in several occurrences (Ex. How she becomes pissed after being called Loli Granny)

That's because the master unit probaly had another body she is using as an avatar and that is probably not her real form.Also she doesn't appear to have some smiliarities to lambda as es-n does and yeah your right about Rachel's emotions. Also es is probably hiding the truth about herself and the master unit due to clavis making an avatar in the form of a loli.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Toxin45

[Shinhwa]

Seriously, the amount of time between XBLAZE and Phase Shift is too short for Rachel to be born and aging.

[Toxin45]

Seriously, the amount of time between XBLAZE and Phase Shift is too short for Rachel to be born and aging.

Like you said Xblaze 2 would be a prequal to phase shift and ct

[Master Of Chaos]

There are theories, there are crack theories, and then there is things that just...aren't.

Rachel and Es are not the same person. That much is obvious. It just doesn't make sense according to the timeline.