Chrono Phantasma Speculations/Theories [rules updated 10/14]

[VermilionBird]

The enchant dragunov seems to me something very complex for azrael ( magic? ), but maybe I'm underestimating the muscle man XD.

It's either a Gain Art or an Overdrive. Both of which are Ars Magus based. The former is like Ragna's Blood Kain or Hakumen's Mugen while the latter is a type of Armagus that's very risky, but can take away the burden of using massive abilities (such as Observation for an Observer).

Magic can only be used by Phantom/Nine, and Celica. Rachel can't use it anymore.

Edit: Haven't been through Azrael's arcade for a while, but neither is the case.

Let's just say power of science.

Edited August 4, 2015 by VermilionBird

[Tong]

It's either a Gain Art or an Overdrive. Both of which are Ars Magus based. The former is like Ragna's Blood Kain or Hakumen's Mugen while the latter is a type of Armagus that's very risky, but can take away the burden of using massive abilities (such as Observation for an Observer).
Magic can only be used by Phantom/Nine, and Celica. Rachel can't use it anymore.

In Arcade mode Azrael himself states it's neither when Ragna inquired about it iirc

[red13]

So I just beat the all three story mode for Chrono Phantasma extended  and I just realized something,Tsubaki still has no idea that Ragna and Jin are brothers its really annoying, that she always gives Ragna crap and saying stuff like that you don't understand what  Jin has bean through,tho on that part I kinda blame Noel  for not even trying to explain but then again so much was happening at the time I hope central fiction will address this      

---

Edited August 5, 2015 by red13

[BlackYakuzu94]

I mean, Ragna did kinda kick the shit outta Jin. If I was Tsubaki, I wouldn't exactly be quick to forgive him either.

[kylehyde]

So I just beat the all three story mode for Chrono Phantasma extended  and I just realized something,Tsubaki still has no idea that Ragna and Jin are brothers its really annoying, that she always gives Ragna crap and saying stuff like that you don't understand what  Jin has bean through,tho on that part I kinda blame Noel  for not even trying to explain but then again so much was happening at the time I hope central fiction will address this      

 

Even if she knew I doubt she'd care at this point. Jin wants him dead and that's all she needs to know.

But I agree with you, it always bothered me how much crap she gives Ragna when everything she blames him for has no merit whatsoever.

Edited August 5, 2015 by kylehyde

[Luminos564]

Even if she knew I doubt she'd care at this point. Jin wants him dead and that's all she needs to know.

But I agree with you, it always bothered me how much crap she gives Ragna when everything she blames him for has no merit whatsoever.

More or less this. Tsubaki is a nice gal most of the time. But touch Jin nii-sama (or heck, convince her of something related to him) and she'll go into Murder-mode at the drop of a hat. This is the same woman in Haku-men's timeline who (furiously) demanded an image of Saya to get away from Jin. Ragna could have been the most upstanding individual in this whole series and she'd still want to kill him if Jin offhandedly mentioned that Ragna once took his ice-cream back when they were kids.

Unfortunately, from her perspective, all she knows is that Ragna was involved in brutally hurting Jin and Noel. It isn't helped that Rachel didn't even plead his case to her in that he was being forced to do so against his will (and on that note: what the hell, Rabbit?). It certainly wouldn't have changed anything as according to Rachel, Ragna needs to be killed soon but geez, why continue to leave out information like this?

[red13]

 

Even if she knew I doubt she'd care at this point. Jin wants him dead and that's all she needs to know.

But I agree with you, it always bothered me how much crap she gives Ragna when everything she blames him for has no merit whatsoever.

Actually she might sing a different tune if she knew the Truth,because she loves Jin she might  be like ,Noel,saying how  two brothers  shouldn't fight  

[BlackYakuzu94]

More or less this. Tsubaki is a nice gal most of the time. But touch Jin nii-sama (or heck, convince her of something related to him) and she'll go into Murder-mode at the drop of a hat. This is the same woman in Haku-men's timeline who (furiously) demanded an image of Saya to get away from Jin. Ragna could have been the most upstanding individual in this whole series and she'd still want to kill him if Jin offhandedly mentioned that Ragna once took his ice-cream back when they were kids.

Unfortunately, from her perspective, all she knows is that Ragna was involved in brutally hurting Jin and Noel. It isn't helped that Rachel didn't even plead his case to her in that he was being forced to do so against his will (and on that note: what the hell, Rabbit?). It certainly wouldn't have changed anything as according to Rachel, Ragna needs to be killed soon but geez, why continue to leave out information like this?

How else are they gonna force the plot forward, lack of communication is an extreme flaw in this series. Nobody fucking talks.

 

Actually she might sing a different tune if she knew the Truth,because she loves Jin she might  be like ,Noel,saying how  two brothers  shouldn't fight  

Doubt it, considering her reaction to his younger sister and she was almost tempted to kill Noel, who's more or less his sister anyway.

[kylehyde]

More or less this. Tsubaki is a nice gal most of the time. But touch Jin nii-sama (or heck, convince her of something related to him) and she'll go into Murder-mode at the drop of a hat. This is the same woman in Haku-men's timeline who (furiously) demanded an image of Saya to get away from Jin. Ragna could have been the most upstanding individual in this whole series and she'd still want to kill him if Jin offhandedly mentioned that Ragna once took his ice-cream back when they were kids.

Unfortunately, from her perspective, all she knows is that Ragna was involved in brutally hurting Jin and Noel. It isn't helped that Rachel didn't even plead his case to her in that he was being forced to do so against his will (and on that note: what the hell, Rabbit?). It certainly wouldn't have changed anything as according to Rachel, Ragna needs to be killed soon but geez, why continue to leave out information like this?

Rachel has her own agenda which unfortunately demands Ragna be thrown under the bus in order to achieve it. 

[sg1989]

 

Even if she knew I doubt she'd care at this point. Jin wants him dead and that's all she needs to know.

But I agree with you, it always bothered me how much crap she gives Ragna when everything she blames him for has no merit whatsoever.

 

I have always seen tsubaki ridiculous and hypocrite.

Ragna, ''the root of all evil,'' seriously, when around people like Terumi / Hazama and (we include him ) azrael (who apparently loves the war, in contrast to tsubaki)

Ok, ragna use the azure grimoire, can turn into black beast if he loses control etc.
But, I see ragna as a kind of consequence, and not the cause of all

The idea of a perfect world of tsubaki is absurd and seems more like a dream of a potential dictator capable of transforming the world of blazblue along with Hakumen / jin in a kind of Nosgoth 2.0 (ok, maybe the comparison with the series LoK is a bit exaggerated but, it was to make the idea XD).

And who's to say then, that after killing his brother, jin, not suddenly go crazy because of the power of order and decides to move his madness on noel?
I would be curious to see tsubaki in this situation XD

but, this is just my opinion, and sorry for off topic

Ps: Sorry for my bad english

Edited August 5, 2015 by sg1989

[BlackYakuzu94]

 

I have always seen tsubaki ridiculous and hypocrite.

Ragna, ''the root of all evil,'' seriously, when around people like Terumi / Hazama and (we include him ) azrael (who apparently loves the war, in contrast to tsubaki)

Ok, ragna use the azure grimoire, can turn into black beast if he loses control etc.
But, I see ragna as a kind of consequence, and not the cause of all

The idea of a perfect world of tsubaki is absurd and seems more like a dream of a potential dictator capable of transforming the world of blazblue along with Hakumen / jin in a kind of Nosgoth 2.0 (ok, maybe the comparison with the series LoK is a bit exaggerated but, it was to make the idea XD).

And who's to say then, that after killing his brother, jin, not suddenly go crazy because of the power of order and decides to move his madness on noel?
I would be curious to see tsubaki in this situation XD

but, this is just my opinion, and sorry for off topic

Ps: Sorry for my bad english

Terumi is dead(for now) and Azrael is sealed away, they're not issues at the moment. Ragna however is a present danger that needs to be dealt with.

I don't think Tsubaki wants a totalitarian world, she just wants to be just and fair and strike down all evildoers. Her enmity towards Ragna is a bit misdirected, but not unjustified. He is a criminal whether we like it or not and he has done some questionable things, he has actively hurt two people Tsubaki cares about and finally he is a threat to the entire world. 

 

It sucks, but piling shit onto Ragna seems to be this series` MO :\.

 

[red13]

How else are they gonna force the plot forward, lack of communication is an extreme flaw in this series. Nobody fucking talks.

 

Doubt it, considering her reaction to his younger sister and she was almost tempted to kill Noel, who's more or less his sister anyway.

wait wasn't confirmed,already that Neol just looks like Saya ?  but was not her I thought she was the 12th prime flied device I mean the fact that Tsubaki  is a nice girl  who the story says she is,if she knows the full picture she with Noel might even try to stop them form fighting   

[VermilionBird]

Wait wasn't it confirmed already that Noel just looks like Saya ?  

Noel is one of three clones of Saya (and looks the most like her imo) and has some of her memories.

Noel also inherited Saya's terrible cooking while we're at it.

Edited August 5, 2015 by VermilionBird

[sg1989]

Terumi is dead(for now) and Azrael is sealed away, they're not issues at the moment. Ragna however is a present danger that needs to be dealt with.

I don't think Tsubaki wants a totalitarian world, she just wants to be just and fair and strike down all evildoers. Her enmity towards Ragna is a bit misdirected, but not unjustified. He is a criminal whether we like it or not and he has done some questionable things, he has actively hurt two people Tsubaki cares about and finally he is a threat to the entire world. 

 

It sucks, but piling shit onto Ragna seems to be this series` MO :\.

 

I do not doubt that ragna is a criminal and he's done questionable things

But even tsubaki be not considered particularly innocent (blind loyalty to NOL, wing of the justice etc.)

what gives me the most trouble, and his belief that eliminating ragna all evil the world disappear, absolutely ridiculous to me

[BlackYakuzu94]

 

I do not doubt that ragna is a criminal and he's done questionable things

But even tsubaki be not considered particularly innocent (blind loyalty to NOL, wing of the justice etc.)

what gives me the most trouble, and his belief that eliminating ragna all evil the world disappear, absolutely ridiculous to me

But Tsubaki has already acknowledged her own dark side and overcame it, which was the entire point of the Izayoi fight :V

[kylehyde]

 

But Tsubaki has already acknowledged her own dark side and overcame it, which was the entire point of the Izayoi fight :V

You could say the same for Ragna. He had his own revelation of coming to terms with himself. If anything I feel his was more impactful while Tsubaki's was more blind loyalty to Jin.

Edited August 5, 2015 by kylehyde

[BlackYakuzu94]

You could say the same for Ragna. He had his own revelation of coming to terms with himself. If anything I feel his was more impactful while Tsubaki's was more blind loyalty to Jin.

Well then at that point, its just bias :V You like Ragna more than Tsubaki, so obviously you'd side more with the former than the latter. 

 

I'm not saying she's not misguided, but I see a lot of "Fuck Tsubaki, how dare she go after Ragna D:" Without people really considering the situation, it feels like unjustified hate to me because I understand how people feel about characters like Tsubaki (nobody likes truth and justice :V) 

[red13]

 

But Tsubaki has already acknowledged her own dark side and overcame it, which was the entire point of the Izayoi fight :V

yeah and I am re-playing at this very moment that your saying this  and I really think Jin is using this whole tsubaki thing  so if he cant   kill Ragna  somebody else can   its like he acting like yuuki tarumi  in this even the warm feelings of saving her makes me so angry  its like YEAH FUCK RAGNA   ONLY LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP CAN STOP RAGNA  like really come on give the guy a break 

[BlackYakuzu94]

yeah and I am re-playing at this very moment that your saying this  and I really think Jin is using this whole tsubaki thing  so if he cant   kill Ragna  somebody else can   its like he acting like yuuki tarumi  in this even the warm feelings of saving her makes me so angry  its like YEAH FUCK RAGNA   ONLY LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP CAN STOP RAGNA  like really come on give the guy a break 

If you really think Jin is trying to be some sort of mastermind just so Ragna will be killed no matter what, then I am going to have to bow out of this conversation and leave you to your wild theories :V

[red13]

If you really think Jin is trying to be some sort of mastermind just so Ragna will be killed no matter what, then I am going to have to bow out of this conversation and leave you to your wild theories :V

how else can you explain it  that whole part was anti Ragna  I want to like Tsubaki  but Chrono  Phantasma has bean about making more  misunderstandings then resolving them I really hope central fiction fixes this  the last thing I want is for Tusbaki  to give Naoto shit just because he has white messy spiky hair     

[Chaoschao222]

Come on, son. There's nothing suggesting Jin has some secret agenda where he's conspiring the whole world against Ragna. With all we know, it's a thing between the two of them, nothing more.

[kylehyde]

Well then at that point, its just bias :V You like Ragna more than Tsubaki, so obviously you'd side more with the former than the latter. 

 

I'm not saying she's not misguided, but I see a lot of "Fuck Tsubaki, how dare she go after Ragna D:" Without people really considering the situation, it feels like unjustified hate to me because I understand how people feel about characters like Tsubaki (nobody likes truth and justice :V) 

You know what never mind no point in arguing with you over something this stupid.

Edited August 5, 2015 by kylehyde

[sg1989]

 

But Tsubaki has already acknowledged her own dark side and overcame it, which was the entire point of the Izayoi fight :V

yes, but this does not erase the past mistakes of tsubaki ( Ragna did good things in CP, but this does not erase his past mistakes )

okay, ragna hurts His friend, but I still find it an exaggeration to call it even '' the root of all evil '' naively thinking that without him the evil will be forever eradicated.

... Maybe I'm criticizing exaggeratedly tsubaki. XD
but the way to do this character always bothered me

PS: sorry for my bad english

[Desert Fox]

how else can you explain it  that whole part was anti Ragna  I want to like Tsubaki  but Chrono  Phantasma has bean about making more  misunderstandings then resolving them I really hope central fiction fixes this  the last thing I want is for Tusbaki  to give Naoto shit just because he has white messy spiky hair     

Jin? A mastermind? You flatter him too much. Besides, if anything, Jin would be salty if Tsubaki stole his kill.

On another note, with BE's characters, save for a few, being parallel to Blazblue's cast, I can't help but think that Naoto's contract with Raquel is a hint of a hint to Ragna and Rachel's relationship. I may be overthinking it though. 

[VermilionBird]

On another note, with BE's characters, save for a few, being parallel to Blazblue's cast, 

There are a few parallels to BlazBlue, but there's more than a few that aren't:

Naoto = Ragna
Raquel = Rachel
Saya Terumi = Saya
Kiiro = the Murakumo Units

That's about it. For XBlaze, however, there can also be:

Haruka = Hinata (barely)
Yuki = Yuki (strongest resemblance, may also be the same person).

Otherwise, Relius, Valkenhayn and Clavis are the same characters (at least according to a Mori interview). Spinner, Kana, Shinnosuke, and Tadayuki don't have counterparts, so to speak.