[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Natsu]

I can't get a hit on Hakumen with Air throw>2A>TCL>3D, the leopard launcher always fail to hit.

any ideas why? my friend tells me it works

[Ice Cube]

On many characters you need to delay just the right amount for Rekka's 3rd hit, too high and Leopard whiff, too low then 3D won't connect afterwards. In corner as well, sometimes an early Leopard push your opponent out of corner, while a late one prevents further combo with 5B. You just have to eyeball + gut feeling whether the dude is at the correct height.

Of course there's also the option of training your combos on the whole cast, but gut feeling works pretty well for me so far.

And this should have been posted in the combo thread.

[zeth07]

On many characters you need to delay just the right amount for Rekka's 3rd hit, too high and Leopard whiff, too low then 3D won't connect afterwards. In corner as well, sometimes an early Leopard push your opponent out of corner, while a late one prevents further combo with 5B. You just have to eyeball + gut feeling whether the dude is at the correct height.

Of course there's also the option of training your combos on the whole cast, but gut feeling works pretty well for me so far.

And this should have been posted in the combo thread.

Actually it is supposed to be posted here. The combo thread is supposed to be for STRICTLY posting actual combos, while this thread is for asking questions / discussing things. Which is why I moved some posts one of the other times, and the only reason some of the other posts aren't moved is because they are providing "additional information" about the combos posted. The reason the combo thread is meant to be "just combos" is so that I don't have to go through pages of posts discussing things when I go to update the thread.

Reference:

• Please refrain from going off topic in this thread. This thread is for posting of combos only. Please take all combo questions and combo theory discussion to the Azrael Gameplay Discussion thread = (link in thread)
  

EDIT: Anddddd I just noticed it still links to the old thread lol. Will fix. Fixed.

Edited December 8, 2013 by zeth07

[Verimeloni]

@Zeth: Should you add this "new" Valiant-being-timer-related-piece of info to the FAQ thread? I understand if it's straight from Dustloop wiki (or some other good source) and you don't want to change it, but in there it still reads that "Valiant Charger can be followed up with up to 5 normals etc."

[zeth07]

@Zeth: Should you add this "new" Valiant-being-timer-related-piece of info to the FAQ thread? I understand if it's straight from Dustloop wiki (or some other good source) and you don't want to change it, but in there it still reads that "Valiant Charger can be followed up with up to 5 normals etc."

Thanks for the heads up. I think at some point I changed that somewhere else because I'm pretty sure we discussed it previously and I guess I didn't go over all the different sections where I mentioned stuff like that. I changed the wording in a few places to fix it and hopefully got them all.

[Ice Cube]

I'm a bit obsessed with ending my combos with j.D these days, since I can do more random stuff after j.D compared to 6D/5D. So here's a compilation of Valiant combo routes that ends with j.D: (every moves written in () can be skipped to account for hitstun decay)

... > 236D > 6 >

• {5C > 6} * 4 > (3C) > 6A > IAD j.C > (2C) > (5B) > (j.B) > j.C j.D
  
• {5C > 6} * 4 > 2C > 6A > (5B) > (j.B) > (j.C) > j.D
  
• {5C > 6} * 3 > 6C > 6 > j.C > (6A) > (2C) > (5B) > (j.B) > j.C j.D
  

In corner, you can sometime change the first 5C to 3C or 6A for extra damage.

(not sure whether to post this in the combo thread or here, mods please feel free to move if wrong thread)

[TheArm05]

Black Hawk Stinger is so fucking godlike. I have never had access to a super nearly as good as this in my entire history of fighting games. Reaction punishing from nearly fullscreen is probably the most satisfying thing in the entire game.

I stole so many rounds at NEC with max range 5C > BHS.

My Azrael is still super mediocre atm though. I have a long way to go before I can compete with the higher tier BB players.

[Kriegdrache]

It'll be godlike when it has invun!

But yeah, it is a pretty cool super, the sound effects it gives off makes it even cooler imo. dat rumbling before the explosion.

[Verimeloni]

http://youtu.be/-3_1bhHBfx4?t=24m41s Wanted to share this one. There's Dogura and Tahichi playing Az in two different pairs, going against Relius and Hakumen team. There's pretty impressive blockstrings + a double RC combo (from blocked Leopard) by Tahichi: TCL (blocked) > RC > 3C > RC > j.A > 5B > Aerial.

[Yazumatto]

http://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=H2w9pTCOgqc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DH2w9pTCOgqc%26feature%3Dyoutu.be

If finals didn't stop me from going to NEC, I would have paid that guy the same amount of money for pulling off the "LOVE PHANTOM" in a tournament.

That was beyond hype.

[Verimeloni]

@Zeth: I've been playing Unlimited Mars for some time now and though I haven't beat any of the 3 courses yet I suppose I'm able to share some tips to exploit against one or two U. opponents. Should I post this knowledge to the opponents' match-up threads or post it in here?

[zeth07]

@Zeth: I've been playing Unlimited Mars for some time now and though I haven't beat any of the 3 courses yet I suppose I'm able to share some tips to exploit against one or two U. opponents. Should I post this knowledge to the opponents' match-up threads or post it in here?

I would just post it here since the match-up threads are intended for real match-ups not unlimiteds. Usually there is a thread for that kinda stuff in the general forums but I didn't see one so I guess it's fine here.

[ThatHiroGuy]

Heya. Been a while! So I've been working on the more subtle, technical parts of playing Azrael, and I'm really struggling on two things in specific.

One- Spacing as a whole. I see some people play Azrael extremely aggressively (I like to, as well), and I'm wondering if this is something that he can only do in certain matchups, or am I supposed to be playing a bit more patiently? I feel forward dashing is a terrible idea unless you're pretty certain the opponent won't hit you, and forward air dash feels pretty unsafe as well. Iunno, just looking on how I can improve on getting in more safely.

Two- Working with the after-image of 5B and making it DA GAWD. I was told by someone that the after-image of 5B is extremely good since it (mostly) works like a sort of shield, in that opponents get hit if they try to get at you while doing it. This made sense, initially. In some tournament footage I saw people throwing out 5B like the ENTIRE match when they aren't doing combos. So I went into training mode, and I tried all different timings for it, and I actually found that I was getting hit for throwing 5B out. Now of course I was practicing this against non-low, straightforward attacks, but I feel like instead of acting like a shield, it (mostly) just increases your hitbox... I'm not entirely sure how to use this, but I've been told it's golden for making Azrael more dangerous.

Help is much appreciated.

[Kinkuli]

Ok i can try to help out a bit i guess.

1. It really depends on the matchup and the opponent. Forward dashing is good if you know that your opponent is not gonna run at you and throw out something (like ragna 5B etc.). To make it somewhat safer you can jump cancel the dash and air barrier. But generally against people with long pokes(hakumen, jin, ragna to some extend, zoners etc.) you are gonna have somewhat hard time on getting in. Only thing you can really do is be patient, get in little by little and once you're in, explode on their faces and make them dead. You can also try using gustaf sometimes, but more often it just will get you in trouble so it should be used sparingly tbh. IMO azrael is a bit like tager, but Azrael is more mobile etc.

2. I'm not entirely sure about this one but i would say that the main point of throwing out 5B is that it's somewhat fast, okish active frames with a good hitbox so it probably wins some stuff if it's already out. Though as a thumb rule i'd say only push it if you are in range for it to hit or if you want to antiair something as it works pretty decently as an antiair. Throwing it out against let's say Mu it's probably gonna get you killed. 5C too good and all :3.

I hope this makes sense. I'm not that good on typing out stuff i might know (or be wrong about )

Edited December 12, 2013 by Kinkuli

[ThatHiroGuy]

It's okay. I do appreciate all, and any help. I've been playing Azrael for over 700 matches now and I guess I never thought of him like Tager. Maybe if I start thinking about his movement in that way (in certain matchups), I'll be way better off.

On the second topic, I figured out what the person meant by 5B being a shield. Literally, if timed correctly, you can counter hit a (for example) Ragna's 5B up to around a full half second after you hit 5B yourself. It's sort of like throwing out a normal preemptively, but its VERY risky. If you do it too early you'll be open (for a short period of time) to be hit. Too late, and you're getting counter hit. I can see why it'd be a great tool to use... but I'm hoping it's not crucial to high level Azrael gameplay, because it's really finicky.

[eSportsHero]

Not really. The 5B "wall" is used to grab the last active frames of the attack.

I don't feel like looking up frame data but I feel like I have a good idea what its going for so bear with me.

5B is extremely active (for a long duration of the move it is able to connect with the oppnent) and more importantly its active up through almost the entirety of its recovery.*** What this means is you throw the move out and hope to catch them with the last active frames. They either get caught, or you recover and are safe/able to start pressure. You do this when the opponent is in the air (dashing or falling) and you're goal is to get the opponent to fall onto your move after its already active. Either you win with a solid hitbox or trades and you may still be able to pick up off the counterhit. And because the move is active for so long it'll catch even baited anti-airs (like a plat that floats or an azrael that j.2CS to throw off your timing). (A lot of people use this to scare Tao's and Valks from flaying all over the screen looking for punishes. Note, its risky as hell on tao when she's grounded) Or you do it on the opponents wake up so that you hit with the very end of the move giving you frame advantage and working the same as a safe jump. (The move will hit them on their wake-up but if they try to punish/reversal you can block before their move goes active)

I think that first use will become less "useful" as people learn to abuse 2C and 6B more. Learning the timing to bait reversals is a good idea though.

ALSO

5b hits behind you, things it catches:

IZAYOI TELEPORT OMFG! <<<< she's in the air, throwing fireballs, about to tele behind you, preempt her with a 5B COUNTER, if not you should recover in time to move out of the way of the fireball or block before it gets to you.

koko tele

arakune tele

kagura cross-up

azrael dash

among other shit

[Kriegdrache]

5b hits behind you, things it catches:

IZAYOI TELEPORT OMFG! <<<< she's in the air, throwing fireballs, about to tele behind you, preempt her with a 5B COUNTER, if not you should recover in time to move out of the way of the fireball or block before it gets to you.

I was playing offline with my friend's Izayoi and I caught her teleport with the hitbox of Azrael's taunt, it was the best shit everrrrrr. Also caught it with lol AH. So good. #Buff izayoi.

But yeah, 5B is nuts. I really like that move.

[LegendaryRath]

Further optimized corner 3C combo (which, surprisingly, does not include Valiant):

(5B) > 3C, 2C > 6D/3D, delay 6A, 5B > TCL, 5B > j.ABC j.D (5002 with 5B, 4287 without) (first one weakpoint 5B combo to break 5k?)

j.B > 5B > 3C, 2C > 6D/3D, delay 6A, 5B > TCL, 5B > j.BC j.D (4555)

j.B > 5A > 5B > 3C, 2C > 6D/3D, 5C > TCL, 5B > j.ABC j.D (4096)

The only downside is that these don't look hype enough.

EXACTLY!

Off 3C [uW], I usually just aim for a double weakpoint application combo. If I'm going for damage, then valiant combos are more damaging with BHS.

[greatfernman]

is there a list of what distortions valiant and hornet guard points can absorb? I believe I've managed to guard carl's rhapsody of memories, though I'm not too sure, I played a bunch of games, so it may not have been that. all I know is that some distortions I seem to be able to guard point and others I can't.

[Lucalibur]

It can guardpoint anything that is a not a low or unblockable during the charge period, I think. I've guardpointed some weird shit with it, but then I just get 2Bed the fuck out of it.

[AMB Bakery]

I re-tested it on Jin's ice wave super and it got blocked. Before it would break the guard point. Been testing it on the portion of the cast to the right of Azrael (Jin, Platinum, Valkenhayn, Bang, Nu, Kokonoe, etc) as well as Ragna and Hakumen, and I've yet to have one of their supers break the guard point. Not sure if this has to do with the patch that came out a few days ago, but maybe it auto-guards everything (besides throws and unblockables) now instead of just 'everything with the exception of distortion drives.'

[natearistata]

I've guard pointed distortions prior to the patch, and afaik the only thing in the patchnotes for Azrael was for unlimited.

In all likelihood, any prior times the move has lost was because it got smacked out of start-up before guard point frames activated, or somehow it went into active frames and the guard point faded.

[greatfernman]

oh right, maybe its the patch that changed it, i didn't think of that. that would be sick if that was the case. I think it guard points lows as well, I've noticed that I've gotten hit out of hornet by highs sometimes though, I assumed it was because the guardpoint hadn't started up yet, but maybe hornet's guardpoint can be hit by highs and valiant's by lows? idk, I would test but I'd get too distracted, and I gotta finish this paper.

what does 11-(active~7)GP mean anyway. is it frame 11 until 7 frames before active or 11 until 7 frames into the active? (I don't think its 7 frames after the active right)

Edited December 16, 2013 by greatfernman

[Lucalibur]

Yeah I've guardpointed supers before the patch as well. 214Ded right through Izayoi's super DP and killed her with it. The guardpoint is really funky, it stays active until the max charge time is over or you let go of the button. It's no DP, but you can punish some large recovery stuff with it. Counter hit 214D is actually really good too, since you can easily follow it up. The question is WHAT we can guardpoint, because so far it seems we can guardpoint pretty much anything that is not a throw so long it hits us during the guardpoint period.

[LordSpectreX]

The nature of these guard points is very obscure indeed.

Based on my findings, I thought that 11-(active~7)GP means that the guard point starts from frame 11 (and it does, since it only very slightly loses to Jin's 10F 5C done at the same time and then 7 frames after that. Jin's 6C is 19F, since the GP on 236D is thus 18F, Jin's 6C will win. What is strange is the active~7. Based on what I've found, holding the button simply lengths the duration of the second (7F) part of the guard point. It does not add to it. As Jin's 6F 5A will beat 236D(charge) if he does 5A at the same time you let go of the button. If it had 7 frames of GP after, it would beat it, even rarely. But nope. never.

However, this isn't consistent. Especially when you bring Hornet into the mix.

Jin's Overhead is 19 Frames. By my theory, 236D should lose, but 214D should win since it's 10(active~12). However, 236D beats it clean, while 214D loses. What is strange is that 214D will almost ALWAYS lose to 6A UNLESS you charge it. Then the GP will always win. It's not simply a high thing either. Jin's 2C which is 17F produces the same result. 236D wins, 214D loses.

What a mysterious jogo.

Oh, and it does lose to Unblockables like Yukikaze. But that's in the wiki so that's fine.