[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[Verimeloni]

Some of his optimal combos are too tight for netplay altogether even with 4 bar connections.

[Warhound]

Oh god the Netplay....

 

Why isn't anyone around me any good at h2h fighters?...

[Putin]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23198617

 

1.1 combos

[Verimeloni]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23198617

 

1.1 combos

Finally, I'm loving this. Forward dash Sentinel -canceling looks awesome & OD 5D > Buster > 2A > 2D > unblockable is just fantastic. My favorite is perhaps (OD) 2D > valiant/hornet/bhs, going abuse that a lot.

[Kriegdrache]

Just mash out 5BB TCL 

 

I find links pretty ez now, but the TCL input still crushes my dreams.

 

;_;

[Kinkuli]

One thing about sentinel. Since you can just easily tk it now, you can do meaty sentinel to dash tk sentinel. If opponent crouches there's a change that it will crossup and i have had times midscreen when it didn't crossup. You could also use it for fake crossups but you need to be sure people will respect what you do. I am pretty sure 5A mash would beat it pretty easily. All in all it's fairly stupid in a sense that you can now do some dirty stuff with it. And if they block you are still +12 so yeaaaah...

[natearistata]

That was the main thing I wanted to test, which characters were short enough when crouching that you could potentially hop over them with tk'd sentinel dump. Will be fun shenanigans.

[Yuhoke]

I thought that they changed Hornet Chaser in 1.1 so that you could do it against an airborne opponent and not whiff your j.C's. Here it happens though: http://youtu.be/YRP5_kF02tg?t=13m25s

 

Or is it not working because it's Litchi 

[greatfernman]

I thought that they changed Hornet Chaser in 1.1 so that you could do it against an airborne opponent and not whiff your j.C's. Here it happens though: http://youtu.be/YRP5_kF02tg?t=13m25s

 

Or is it not working because it's Litchi 

I remember seeing somewhere that despite supposed changes to hornet and cobra the two still feel the same. it was probably on this thread, but maybe not.

[Warhound]

I find links pretty ez now, but the TCL input still crushes my dreams.

 

;_;

 

It's dat 46 movement. I feels you, nigs.

[Kinkuli]

You can still mess it up but if you delay the jC a bit, then the new trajectory change should help you catch the opponent more easily. But if you start mashing jC right away, then that specific situation can happen :3.

[Verimeloni]

It's dat 46 movement. I feels you, nigs.

Arcadestickmasterrace I've been playing with a pad recently and just canceling into tiger from 2B is the hardest thing ever :I

 

 

You can still mess it up but if you delay the jC a bit, then the new trajectory change should help you catch the opponent more easily. But if you start mashing jC right away, then that specific situation can happen :3.

Is it the trajectory that's changed or Hornet's hitstun/time you can drop down with j.2C to continue comboing? You can delay j.Cs in CP 1 too (on airborne [LW] opponents) but the timing is pretty strict if you don't want j.2C to result in knockdown.

[Kinkuli]

They changed hornet chaser like it says in patch notes. It tracks faster now  If you wait few frames you catch up with opponent faster and can do the normal follow up. If you start mashing jC straight away then you just kick the air. The change really helps on AIR hit. Grounded hit is more or less the same. 

[Verimeloni]

http://youtu.be/wnE-rrAZWoE?t=7m8s

 

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah

[Lucalibur]

You know, that only made the BHS look that much cooler for some reason lmao

[Yuhoke]

Imagine if you could decide which way to do Valiant Chaser. You could do cool finishers like that every once in a while. It's like he's stepping back to charge more power, get the momentum to hit you harder... Damn.

[natearistata]

That part was amazing, yeah, but I think it might've been necessary too. Notice how Hakumen falls a bit before Azrael initiates BHS? The entire time he was doing valiant, I was thinking 'Damn, too high, probably not going to be able to finish it.'

 

Still, did have to pause and re-watch a couple times the first time I saw it.

[Fatalis]

Even if he did BHS at that point blank range it would have hit.

 

The hitbox is surprisingly big, they really need to be above you for it to whiff.

[LordSpectreX]

I actually screamed out loud a little bit, Gurren Lagann hype style.

 

Edit: Ah, I also wanted to ask some questions, if anyone could assist, that'd be great.

 

1) For punishing something that is reasonably unsafe but not unsafe enough to punish with a weakpoint starter like 5D or 3D (e.g. say -17), you're midscreen and you don't have meter for RCs or any weak points, what's the highest damage punish you can do? Would it be something like this;

 

Meterless: 3C>22C>5B>TCL>(3D)or(5B>2C>5B>jABC>j.D)

With 25 Meter and Close : 5C>CT>3C>22C etc.

With 50 Meter: 5C>236A>RC>3C>Stuff

Is that correct?

 

2) Is there anything special one must do the TCL>Rapid>IAD>j.C>6A thing? I'm currently just kind of doing it by feel alone but I only get it just over half the time. Is there any sort of delay or extra timing you must do to make it work consistently, or is it just about doing j.C when they as low to the ground as possible?

 

3) I've also been trying to get my corner oki down as tight as possible. While trying to cover the 3 biggest bases, Forwards Rolling, Late Teching and Wake Up Mash.

 

After a long combo where using 2A>5A>etc to punish not emergency teching won't work

 

1) Neutral Jumps at the end of the combo so you land far enough away so the forwards roll doesn't go through you.

2) Delay 5B. This should catch forwards, back, and quick tech. Confirm with j.A.

3) If they're still on the ground, do 2A, this will pick them up but now reset into a new combo.

If they neutral tech, you should have a few options

A) 5BB, should stop plain old mashing. If they utterly respect you or they have no reversal options, should be even more than +5 on block. Will lose to reversals.

B) Block or Backdash. Will bait most DPs. Though you sacrifice your natural advantage. Backdash>gustaf should make them block unless they used a huge normal or jumped out quickly.

C) Dash Through, 5D, any kind of mixup option, will lose to mashing. Dash will bait most DPs.

 

Does this seem like a legit general plan? Obviously you change up depending on your opponent, but this is mainly for stuff like tournaments where you don't know how the guy plays and you need the most reliable 'default' plan possible.

 

The other plan is to just simply stand there doing nothing, then just react to any rolls/no tech with 2A, and if they neutral tech then you just just do whatever.

 

I haven't really been able to test it out all that much though. The main problem is that reacting with 5BB on neutral tech feels difficult and they could just reaction DP it. Wondering if people had any better suggestions of how to execute a 'default' reliable corner oki game.

[Fatalis]

1. I'd probably do a 3C route, as usually you're too far away after 5C to get anything off it. If you know it's going to FC, you can do something like 5C --> 6C -->TCL --> RC --> etc

 

2. My tip is that you RC after you've moved forward after Leopard, so you need to delay the RC just a little. I find it helps with getting low enough to hit with 6A.

 

3. I don't really have tips here, I usually either do a 2A to pick up if they don't tech, or a meaty 5B. Sometimes if I see that they emergency teched, I'll do 3C to try and catch them by surprise. If I can get the win in just one more combo, I'll do some dash through gimmick, or if they're respecting you, go for a j.a --> throw.

 

It's probably something I should work on, but I don't really think about what to do in the corner, I just do what I think will work right in the moment.

[Verimeloni]

The easiest way to time the j.C right after TCL RC for 6A followup is to delay the RC, I tried to elaborate it in my tutorial vid. You can find it in the video thread.

[LordSpectreX]

1. I'd probably do a 3C route, as usually you're too far away after 5C to get anything off it. If you know it's going to FC, you can do something like 5C --> 6C -->TCL --> RC --> etc

 

2. My tip is that you RC after you've moved forward after Leopard, so you need to delay the RC just a little. I find it helps with getting low enough to hit with 6A.

 

3. I don't really have tips here, I usually either do a 2A to pick up if they don't tech, or a meaty 5B. Sometimes if I see that they emergency teched, I'll do 3C to try and catch them by surprise. If I can get the win in just one more combo, I'll do some dash through gimmick, or if they're respecting you, go for a j.a --> throw.

 

It's probably something I should work on, but I don't really think about what to do in the corner, I just do what I think will work right in the moment.

 

Much appreciated. Got the combo down pretty consistently now.

 

@Veri I saw that video, it's fantastic, but I was just asked for a sort of visual cue for doing the combo rather than trying to time it raw. 

[Kinkuli]

For punishing i still generally use 5B or 5C or 5D. Should probably look into 3C punishes but i usually end up punishing reversals either way so i just 5C/5D most of the time :3.

 

RC jC 6A i just do by the feel really. I don't personally delay the RC and i hit it most of the time. Theen i drop it like maybe 10% of the time ;(.

 

I've been trying out stuff in corner after the patch and i have been using dump there more often. It's pretty good i think. Generally most of the time people don't stay down and just tech even after a long combo. If they don't i just dump which should catch rolls too. That or whack them with 5B. 2D is also good if they just want to lay down. 2C should also work but they are both have higher risk and higher reward than the usual things(well 2D isn't really high reward but yeah...). 

 

Azrael doesn't really have anything that will force opponent to respect your oki so it boils down to reading what they want to do. Best thing to do really is just stand in range where they can't roll through you and push something. 5D/5B/whatever. Or block if DP's are a thing in the current match you are playing. 

[Verimeloni]

@Spectre I usually do it myself by listening the Leopard sound effect a little and then RC'ing, it's impossible in netplay but it might be helpful in tournaments. I think it's the easiest way to do it since cold timing it easily results in dropping the combo and having to go back into neutral etc.

[LordSpectreX]

Yeah I got it down now, thanks guys.

 

Another general question. I played a hundred straight games against my local Mu today and I've noticed something I was having a lot of trouble dealing with that doesn't come up that often.

 

He would always barrier EVERYTHING. My pressure felt incredibly weak and insubstantial. He would barrier a 5A and I would actually be too far away to follow up with anything safe other than 2B or max range 5B (where 5BB won't connect). Gustaf would actually repel me to a point where 5B was to far but his 2B would hit. Even without instant blocking it. He would then IAD backwards and j.C and I often felt really stuck. I eventually came to the conclusion that I could not really do anything about this and just follow her safely until she reached the corner, which worked reasonably well, but I was wondering if anyone else had any suggestions for what to do against opponents who try to barrier everything and jump out?