[CP] Ragna vs μ-12-

[floatwater]

Discuss Ragna vs Mu-12 matchup here:

MOST of the frame data and game-plan from EX still applies to CP.

Match Start:

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Neutral:

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Offense:

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Defense:

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Punishes (on block/reaction):

Combo Notes:

I or a Mod will edit OP. Contriboot

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[Fistmaster049]

Some things never change huh?

This matchup still makes me want to tear my hair out D:

Any pointers on what I'm pretty sure is Ragna's worst matchup?

[bakahyl]

Dunno if it has stayed the same but imo it's not as easy to keep Ragna way in CP because of the increased recovery on Habaya and Totsuka (and the reward on Totsuka is less, so it's less braindead than CSE). However the faster lasers can be a nuisance or even a problem for Ragna , depending on how well you can deal with it.

Ragna still has the better normals and dp, so get in and don't let Mu out

[Fistmaster049]

From what I gathered so far

Pros:

Ragna seems to out poke her (but not by much)

Our DP beats hers (lol)

If Ragna ever manages to back her into a corner its very hard for her to get out (her DP seems very easy to bait and her normals seem kinda slow)

Cons:

The faster lasers make it even harder for Ragna to approach

Her 5C is still a massive pain in the ass

Ragna shouldn't try to beat her in the air because 9 times out of 10 he just can't

Mu's Dp (if it ever manages to land) resets to worst possible position for Ragna, almost full screen and Mu having plenty of time to set up steins

[-Kid]

Backdash to make her normals whiff, then punish accordingly. The matchup is pretty much the same as how it was in CSEX. Just make sure you stay grounded most of the time and don't use reckless jump-ins.

Ikutachi can be used to escape the corner should you happen to back her into it, so just be weary of that.

Edited February 6, 2014 by -Kid

[bakahyl]

From what I gathered so far

Pros:

Our DP beats hers (lol)

Not true, Mu's dp while not the best dp to stuff things is a dp that should never lose on a clashing war against any other dp. Because of it's unique properties of being a fully invincible guard point with very wierd active frames when something hits her while the dp is out, will ensure a clash vs something that has invincibility. Meaning, when clashing if you mash Mu's dp hard enough eventually you will win from Ragna's inferno divider because Ragna will slightly move higher while Mu stays on the ground

Edited February 6, 2014 by bakahyl

[Fistmaster049]

Played a bit more Mu last night as well as did a bit more testing and I maybe have found some things out

Not true, Mu's dp while not the best dp to stuff things is a dp that should never lose on a clashing war against any other dp. Because of it's unique properties of being a fully invincible guard point with very wierd active frames when something hits her while the dp is out, will ensure a clash vs something that has invincibility. Meaning, when clashing if you mash Mu's dp hard enough eventually you will win from Ragna's inferno divider because Ragna will slightly move higher while Mu stays on the ground

This is actually completely true, my bad

Anywho..

>in terms of setups after knockdowns, 5C from almost max range allows safety from her DP (still need to confirm 100%) although obviously normal safe jumps will do fine

>Arrows of heaven can be IADed over for a free punish as long as your not too close

>If she tries to lock you down with projectiles from full screen Ragna's best option seems to be to wait because if she knows how to use steins to their fullest you will be barely able to move, at best jumping barrier? or wait till she stops/gets bored

>j.c into j.2c can be DP punished on normal block

>Dead spike seems very useful in this particular matchup

Edited February 7, 2014 by Fistmaster049

[bakahyl]

IIRC isn't deadspike -1 on block now? I can't see how that is usefull unless you get more frame advantage of it on a dash cancel

J.c into j.2c can be DP punished, but it can be just as easily baited. Because Mu's j.c has lost it's landing recovery, she can opt to backdash or block when landing and punish an inferno divider (something that i tend to do against some higher ranked EU Ragna players)

[Lucalibur]

IIRC isn't deadspike -1 on block now? I can't see how that is usefull unless you get more frame advantage of it on a dash cancel

J.c into j.2c can be DP punished, but it can be just as easily baited. Because Mu's j.c has lost it's landing recovery, she can opt to backdash or block when landing and punish an inferno divider (something that i tend to do against some higher ranked EU Ragna players)

-1 If it hits at point blank, but the frame advantage increases proportionally to how far Ragna is from the enemy due to hitting with the later active frames. Still a major nerf, but it can still be positive if spaced correctly.

[Zeromus_X]

>in terms of setups after knockdowns, 5C from almost max range allows safety from her DP (still need to confirm 100%) although obviously normal safe jumps will do fine

Any type of meaty will get devoured by Mu's DP because of the autoguard; because of this, 5C will get eaten and it can't actually be safe-jumped. Dead Spike oki or just hard baiting the DP is the way to go since its hitbox isn't very big.

[floatwater]

uhh if you are full screen dash barrier, on a safe jump a 2B will clash with her DP.

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, clashing works too. My bad; thought he meant using jB or jC as a safejump.

[D.R.F.]

This matchup got a bit easier as of 1.1. Her dp is nowhere near as annoying as before, but the matchup is still dominated by being forced to walk through a maze of Steins. Is there anyway to reliably get out or punish her pressure? The best thing I got so far is jump barrier

[C0R]

This matchup got a bit easier as of 1.1. Her dp is nowhere near as annoying as before, but the matchup is still dominated by being forced to walk through a maze of Steins. Is there anyway to reliably get out or punish her pressure? The best thing I got so far is jump barrier

Ragna is lucky to have one of the Jabs fast enough to punish 6b on instant block. In the event that she does uppercut, you will recover in time to block it. Use a hit/whiff input OS to take advantage of the situation.

 

If µ is pressuring well, you just have to be patient, especially now that 7K+ kill combos exist off mixup. Careful folks!